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[Sharmin Kassam]: I was running on a little bit of Indian Standard Time. [Aleah Ameer]: Don't worry. I totally feel that. Yeah, um how are you? How is everything? I hope I'm not taking... [SK]: No, I've been looking forward to this all day. I like jet home. I was like, I really

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don't want to do this from my office because like I work in Newmarket, so I'm like by the time I'm done, I'm not really down for the drive that late, so I'm like okay, I'm gonna leave. But then one of my, like my, my project

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manager just like totally side, like I was like, I'm leaving because it takes an hour to get from Newmarket to Mississauga. So I was like, okay, I'm leaving and then he calls me like when I'm halfway through my drive and he's like, I need this and

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this and I'm like, I told you that I need to go. All good, we're here now, so I appreciate the patience. [AA]: No, thank you. Thank again, I want to thank you so much for doing this for us. It's gonna be great to have your story on

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record with us. [SK]: It's exciting. I'm excited to share it. Thank you so much. [AA]: All right, so my name is Aleah Ameer and I'm with the University of Mississauga. Um if you would like to share your full name and pronouns and how old you are, if you like.

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[SK]: Yeah, for sure. So my name is Sharmin Kassam. Um, my pronouns are she and her, and I am 27 years old. [AA]: Okay. Um well you just answer that. Gosh, okay. Uh so let's just start off with kind of like back at the beginning. So what was

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your childhood like, where did you grow up, like, did you grow up in Mississauga? [SK]: Yeah, so I was born and raised here in Mississauga, um literally like 15 minutes away from like where I currently live. My parents both immigrated to Canada. They actually met here, they

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married here and then um I have like a younger brother and then it's just the two of them. So that's, that's us. Uh childhood was pretty like Canadian. I mean I'm first generation. We're like as children, typically of immigrants, we are first generation Canadian. Um and it

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was like a, I want to call it like a cultural mishmash of um wherever you sort of had like the western fields of life, we always had the infusion of our cultures, the religion. Um we grew up like obviously celebrating all the major holidays I,

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me and my family were Muslim. Um and uh it was, it was nice in a sense, but it was always like, I always felt like when we would have our holidays during the school year, it would be like, okay, I'm gonna take the day off, but

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then like we get Christmas off. So I wish like this was a distinguished holiday that you know, like everyone could get off, but it's pretty good. It was, it was a great childhood, I'm not gonna lie, very supportive family. Uh and a lot of

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opportunities that allowed me the accessibility to be who I am and to get me to the places where I am today. [AA]: That's wonderful to hear. Yeah, I totally get that. And why does everyone else get, why does, why do people get Christmas off and eat? Why

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do we get Eid off, like. [SK]: I know right. Well yeah, Eid, Diwali, like whatever you celebrate, right? Multiple ethnicities. Obviously many people have different holidays and stuff, but like I'm not gonna complain. It was never like, you know, we were hassled about it. Enough people, I

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would say that like you are, you're in Peel, right? [AA]: Yes. [SK]: So like, you know that we have like our South Asian pockets. So it's never like, you know, okay, I'm going to take a day off and people go like, I don't know what that is like why

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are you taking that day off? But I'm very privileged to say that like I have like a sort of multicultural circle of friends, so it's really nice because whatever I didn't celebrate someone else did. So I learned about it and vice versa. [AA]: Yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely

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the expression where everyone's going on. We're definitely a mosaic of different. [SK]: Yes, yeah, we are Ontario is known as the cultural melting pot so that we definitely are. [AA]: Especially as first generation Canadians. You definitely get a lot of that uh weird cultural intersections. Um you said

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your parents are not actually from South uh South Asia, they're from Africa? [SK]: They're from East Africa. So yes, so uh Indian roots. So a lot of people typically um they go like okay if your parents are from Africa, then like why, why do you have like all

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the Indian cultures infused to you? So um my mom's from Tanzania and my dad's from Kenya. So they both grew up like in sort of neighboring countries and then they moved here, they immigrated here. Um, and it's, it's interesting because when I try to explain the

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culture to a lot of people, I'm like okay think Indian but with all the fun infusions of like a uh like anything that you would consider a more tropical country. So a lot of our staple food has like coconut infused in it. And we have like

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a lot of, you know fried good stuff that comes from like, you know um cassava root and stuff like that. So it's, we have the Indian side to it. We cook like, you know our food, our traditions, like even the weddings that we do, like all

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the ceremonies are pretty much in harmony with what you would find in South East Asia. Um, it's just the roots of like, you know where my parents and their parents grew up that's just the only difference and then they brought with them their set of traditions

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and cultures. [AA]: Yeah, that's really interesting because my parents are from the Caribbean. So it's the same kind of idea where it's like you've got like coconut stuff and you've got like, you know your fried plantain and all that kind of stuff. It's also mixed in with that

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Indian culture because that's where the roots are from. Very cool. [SK]: I honestly just like think that like we get the best of both worlds like we get the like obviously the Indian infusion and it's like okay when I'm craving like a North Indian dish like butter

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chicken or something, I'll go to my restaurant but I'm like it's very hard to find like our style of food. Like here it's like you gotta go to the specialty places or even the, even the ingredients you just, you got to go hunting for them. [AA]: Yeah,

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there's definitely when my parents first immigrated here, you definitely had to go to very specialized places. Like we have like a specific place that was called a West Indian store and there was one and like [SK]: Yeah, yeah. Like to this day though there's still like, you know

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you guys you're so famous for your fried plantain chips and I like I love that stuff and the only place I can find it like here still today is like Dundas and Hurontario like where that which is like where everybody goes to get

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their fix of, you know, like infused Asian Indian like Caribbean culture. [AA]: Yeah it definitely is like and only recently have like those like Hakka fusion places like suddenly opened up and you've got all that kind of, so, times are definitely changing. That's for

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sure. Um, so okay, so many people for... You're a henna artist are, but that's kind of not your, you have kind of two sides to you. So you do henna art, but you also do construction. So can you tell me a little bit like, how did you

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get to like, how did you get to that point? Like is there anything like influence, like how did you get to like do both at the same time? [SK]: Yeah, so it's been okay, so the way I describe my journey is honestly like a whirlwind. So the

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plan was never to be in a henna business. Um, the like it's not, it's not for any negative reason, it was just like, you know, I never saw myself as an artist like growing up, like the things that I loved were like everything related to

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dance, I was never, you know, somebody that painted, I didn't sketch. It was like, I liked to dance or I, you know, went to school and did whatever. Um and then henna came on it was like kind of like an extracurricular activity that I picked

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up not even knowing Lee. Uh um, so when I was, I don't even know grade seven or grade eight. Um I was, we were going to a wedding and my mom at the time, she um you know anytime we would go to a wedding like India

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is sort of, any Indian ceremony, Pakistani, um, Sikh... Like whatever background you're from like typically there's a henna ceremony for for like one of the events and so what ended up happening was we went to um like a family friend's wedding and mom had a

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henna cone and the vibe typically is if you know how to do henna, everybody's going to gravitate towards you. So um I was super impatient. I am still very impatient. Um and so the whole evening I was waiting, I was like mom, we have a henna cone

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at her table. I want you to do my, I want you to do my henna and all the aunties kept on coming to her and they were like, oh you can do henna, you can do mine, you can do that. And she was so tired,

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probably, by the end of the night that I literally went home that night and I did my very first ever henna design and it was absolutely atrocious. I I was how old, I was 13 years old. It was, it was, oh my goodness! Um I

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have a picture of it because I thought that I should be proud of it and document that moment and uh and you know there's this feeling that you get when you do something that just brings you an immense amount of joy that was just kind of

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like, I just kind of like hooked. So I was like, how is it that this like little 3D medium that feels like icing but stains your skin um, can be like moved to such intricate ways to create designs. And henna has only really penetrated the

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Western world over the past 20 years, I would say even even, I think the past decade is like sort of more so our generation bringing it forward to everyone. So before that it was just kind of hidden in these little pockets of communities where it's like,

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okay, I'm only getting henna for Eid, I'm only getting it, you know, for a wedding and like, you know, it was, you would see somebody at like a grocery store like, you know with henna done and you're like, oh, they just got married, like those were

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your markers. So um, I remember like picking up that cone, you know, those like not so great, crappy little store bought henna cones from like Asian Food Center. They're like chemical ridden, I didn't know any better and I just started doing henna, like I would just

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pick up and I would do the patterns. But the problem with me is that if I don't, like, if I like to do something and I don't like what I'm seeing as the end result. I like, I'll keep at it and I'll keep pestering myself to

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do better. So I discovered an artist from the UK at the time who was coincidentally male and his name was Ash Kumar and I fell in love with his designs at the time that was like the most intricate, fine like detail that I'd ever seen and

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this is like, this is like I'm in high school at this point and I just kind of kept it like, you know, you know when you keep tabs on on people and things and this is before like social media blew up and everything. Um so I

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would just keep like all the little magazines with the clippings and everything and um it was just something that I would just do for fun, I would do it for friends. Um I did a couple of art projects that were like, okay, you know, choose a

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medium and so I just decided to use henna but it was never something that was notable and then I like grade 11, 12 rolled around and I'm trying to figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life because apparently that's what you're

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supposed to do when you hit Grade 11 and 12 and I realized that I definitely had a passion for construction. Um but like I didn't think that the art could be a business because South Asian culture is typically like, you know, you grow up, you make

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something of yourself, like we didn't come to this country so that you could just become an artist or whatever and that was never even a conversation that I even had to have with my parents because for me I was like okay, well I want to do

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something, but what one thing I didn't know was that I wanted my life to be very hands on. I could not succumb to the theory of a university level textbook right from the get go. So I chose college instead of university um which again is also

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very not normal for like South Asian culture, but my parents have been the most supportive of that. They were like whatever you do do, just always remember to finish what you start. So don't walk out of like, you know, your three year program, two years in

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and being like this isn't for me. So I was like okay, that's cool, so let's not, you know, as much as like I had my sights set, I was like okay, maybe I should go to U of T and I should like do engineering, but I

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was like, like I don't even know the first thing about what it entails, Let me get my let me do something that enables me to get my hands dirty so that I am able to then take it back into the theory and then understand why. So

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for me it's like I always want to do the thing and then I want to learn the theory behind why it exists for everything. So henna was very similar in the pockets of me going through like college, I went to Humber College for civil engineering technology.

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Um henna was just my constant as like sort of like, okay, I'll come home when I doodle and I would always see Ash Kumar's work and I'd be like, how do I get my line straight? How do I get that perfect little paisley? How do I

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get a floral, like that looks like a flower, not like a crushed little insect, like what do I do, right? And so at the time I told myself I said a silent goal, I was like, okay, you know what if I go through school and I land

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my first job eventually I'm going to save up enough money. I'm going to go to London. He has a UK based academy where he teaches henna courses. So I was like, I'll go and um, I'll do it. And then coincidentally on the very last day of my

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college experience, like last exam, um, I'm thinking, okay, I have a week before I have 2 to 3 weeks before I start my full time job, I'm just going to take it easy and I get an email because I was like on their subscription list that

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for the first time they're hosting a henna course in Toronto. Oh wow. Yeah, so the educator was actually, it wasn't Ash Kumar, it was like one of the people that he had known and was on his team for many years and it was her name was

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Shafeena but the course is like I think like just over $1000. So like here I am just a student and I paid my way through school. I was like I'm not doing OSAP I gotta work whatever. So I did it and at the time

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I was juggling like 2 to 3 part time jobs trying to make it happen. Um I'm like am I really gonna finish school and put more money down on something that I might not even like, you know because in my mind I was like this is

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not a career, this is just something that I want to refine a skill in, right? Um, and I saw my parents struggle like my entire life you know to to put food on the table to make sure that we had like a proper place to live.

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Like nothing came easy for them. So I was like like this seems a little bit frivolous. Um, so where people decide that they're gonna like you know do like an end of like I'm gonna graduate and I'm going to go on vacation. I chose to take

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another course that was my friends and my family that were like if you're gonna do the thing just do it. Like if you think that this is gonna help you, you've been eyeing this person, you've been eyeing this style for so many years. Like I know

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you did school to be better but do this for you. And so I did it and it was like the most magical, it was like a four day course um, like full days, eight AM to five PM. I had people in there that I'm still friends

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with to this day, like really good friends we became and this is like back in 2014. Um, and I was like, I thought that was, I thought it was kind of it. I was like, okay, you know what, This is really nice. I finally, I finally

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understand the techniques and stuff and I'm going to refine my style. Um, but like the summer before I graduated, I was looking for a job and it was my aunt who was like, why don't you do henna for people? And I was like, have you seen

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my work? Like nobody's gonna hire me like, and I was like, I would just charge people for doing like, this is so weird to me, right? Because the concept of like a henna artist for me only existed in the realm of like India or you know,

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weddings back home, like you don't hire henna artists like that's not normal here, but at the time it was becoming a known thing. And um the other sort of the other side to it was, I was like every henna artist that I've seen more so in

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weddings and like our, our built in environment in like Mississauga or Canada. It's like, you know, a person that's immigrated here., they're trying to make their ends meet, this is what they have to offer. And then they're just going to be an artist because that's, you know, they

00:16:33.130 - 00:16:44.660

learned henna back home and people need a henna artist. So I was a really competitive market right? Like we, we talk about pricing and everything and I'm like, this isn't like a business like thing. I'm not just gonna go to somebody, spend 10 minutes

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on them and be like, okay, that's $2 or that's $3. Like I'm not, that's not me. And I've always said that I'm like, I'm not a businesswoman, I can't go up to people and say, hey, uh you need to pay me for my services because I'm

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good at what I do and I think that you can, you know, I can offer you something like that's never been my MO that's still not my personality. Um and so I was like, you know what, I don't really have anything to lose. That was

00:17:09.020 - 00:17:21.690

kind of became the motto of like my next couple of years. It's like, what do you really have to lose? So I remember going out like Microsoft like Power Point and just creating a little bit like a flyer, like posting it in the Asian food centers

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and I was like, I wasn't driving at the time. So it had to be limited to like a 10 kilometer radius where my mom could drop me and she uh I got, I got my first phone call and I was like right behind my house and

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it was like this lovely, lovely family, their daughter, like their son was getting married, I still remember them because the whole story came full circle like seven or eight years later. Um and I like that was my first sort of client sitting and I was like,

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nervous. I had store bought henna cones which were like clogging every couple of seconds. I had like so many safety pins with me and I remember going up there and it was just like the most lovely time with the family, like conversation, laughter, it was a

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wedding house. So like the good food, it's just like, like it was all the positives, right? And you like, I maybe I'm being very selfish to share, but I think that the henna event is when the people are the most happiest and they're the most together

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because that's where you know the music's going, everyone's singing, like nobody really cares. And so something clicked in me and I was like, this feeling of just like, you're home with people that aren't even your home, like you've never met these people in your life, they are

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absolute strangers, you're sharing the story you're in on their one major life event, you know, hopefully it ends up for the best that they're going to talk about for the rest of their life, it was just like, it stuck with me and I was like, I

00:18:44.830 - 00:18:55.350

like this feeling and so it became less about okay the money because yes, we were trying to make ends meet but more about okay, how do I, how do I meet more people? Like it was like, how do I share my story? How do I, how

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do I hear people's stories like I was, this was purely selfish right at this point, I was like, I just want to talk to you, I want to get to know people. Um and we talked about this when we first spoke, I have met people in

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this lifetime that I would otherwise never meet and I would probably, I would never have the opportunity of meeting purely because of the henna and the art and this conversation and the dialogue. So when I finished my course, like the year later I took the next

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six months to refine my skill and then slowly, like I just started kind of like, I never even thought much of it and then people were like, okay, well if you're going to start my, my um sort of, my name started going around like word of mouth,

00:19:36.780 - 00:19:50.190

right, like an aunt picks up your, like your name, your number. And so a family member was like, you need to get cards done, you need to give them your number professionally, you need to give your business name. And I was like no like

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this is not, this is again this is not turning into a business, I have my sights set and construction, like I know what I want to do um right after I finished college I decided I would do university then, so I'm like I'm gonna be night

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schooling and McMaster, this is not like no um but it just, it was just persistent and it like I kept with it a year later, a year after taking the course um we were like part of a facebook group, like everybody who graduated from the course

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and the managing director just put in a like a post and she was like, hey we're looking for product stockists for the henna products in Canada. And the one thing I fell in love with when I like went to the Ash Kumar course here was the

00:20:31.260 - 00:20:46.010

product quality. It was unlike, I was just used to like the, you know henna, like the henna from the store and I was getting sick of it because like it's a hit or miss and when people are paying you to do to perform a service, they

00:20:46.010 - 00:20:58.150

expect the quality. So when I, you know did Ash Kumar and I started like you know starting the products, I realized it's really hard to get them in Canada duties, shipping, all of that stuff. Like I, I like I had to educate myself on it because I

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was like how do I get my hands on the product. So I just again it was like the one thing where it was like I was switching over jobs and I was leaving my like um I had just worked at that company for like a little

00:21:08.130 - 00:21:18.190

over three years and I realized okay this is not for me in terms of construction, I have more to offer and I'm not going to get it here. So I had an opportunity to go back to my college and teach at the time, so it's like

00:21:18.200 - 00:21:31.920

I'm gonna teach first semester, I'm gonna be a prof and I'm like contemplating taking on like the stockist opportunity. So I messaged her and I was like Kate, listen honestly what do I have to lose? I don't know anything about business, I don't know

00:21:31.920 - 00:21:45.470

anything about like stocking products or like how to sell and things like that. So I'm like what am I what am I gonna bring to the table? And so I was like there's probably 15 other people that are looking for this too um or looking to like

00:21:45.470 - 00:21:55.260

take on that role. And so she messaged me like that like the next day and she's like so I talked to Shafeena who is like my educator and she's like she's really vouching for you and I've heard I've heard good things so like why don't

00:21:55.260 - 00:22:08.240

we try this out? And I was like, hold on, hold on, there's like no process like what are we doing and like uh the requirement for that like to be a product stockist and to import products was that I needed to have a legitimate business, I

00:22:08.240 - 00:22:22.590

needed a registered business, registered business name, it wasn't just like the shady like okay Asian food center like word of mouth, like we're just going to be an artist anymore, it's in order to import and export essentially, you need to have credibility um and so you

00:22:22.590 - 00:22:35.980

need to register your master business license and all that and that is literally how Shars Henna was born, it was like the inception of like this role that I never had planned for me and it all came full circle when I was like, hey listen

00:22:35.980 - 00:22:46.710

what do I have to lose, like I'm either going to learn about a company and I'm going to be on board with them or I am going to like try to take it on and I'm gonna crash and burn but at least it was a learning experience.

00:22:46.710 - 00:23:01.000

So so that's kind of like that's kind of how like the whole thing started and that's how I ended up where I was and like the whole time, okay, the upside to weddings is that their evenings and weekends, right? So you're not really sacrificing your day

00:23:01.000 - 00:23:17.510

hours um and if you are, you're just you're taking that time off and I couldn't find the divide between henna and construction, like I loved them and I still to this day love them both so much that you can't have me do one without the other,

00:23:17.520 - 00:23:34.630

how I find the time, how we're gonna like, I don't know, I'm you know there's burnout, there's a lot of days where we doubt what we do, but I'm definitely really, really, really grateful that I've had these opportunities. [AA]: That's amazing that like that that's like that's

00:23:34.630 - 00:23:44.620

such a cool story because when you look at it and like sometimes when the kids are little right there, like I know exactly what I want to do and I know where I want to be but like for you it was like I want to do

00:23:44.620 - 00:24:01.730

both and you were able to do both and that's really bad. Yeah, it's amazing. [SK]: I'm I'm well aware of the privilege that I've had and the opportunities and I'm like incredibly incredibly grateful for them because without to an extent without the sacrifices and the people around

00:24:01.730 - 00:24:13.930

me, I would not be able to do what I do. So I am so grateful for the family and friends in the circle of mentors that I have. [AA]: Yeah and that's what I was going to ask you because I was, I was definitely looking at because

00:24:13.930 - 00:24:27.740

as um part of South Asian Indian culture, our family is like the most important thing to us no matter how like you know, kind of crazy, everything gets, it's a family to support you. So I was gonna ask like, and of course your family is very

00:24:27.740 - 00:24:40.460

supportive and they want only the best for you, so relationships are good that that's all you could want, right? Just to support you through everything that you want to do. [SK]: Yeah, I mean like, so I chose, I chose construction again, which is like a male dominated

00:24:40.460 - 00:24:57.070

field and then I decided to do the henna thing which like um like South Asian being a South Asian female, I'm being like, you know, out late for being like constantly away, like that doesn't settle well and like, trust me, I've heard it, I've grown up

00:24:57.070 - 00:25:12.620

around it, I've fought it, like, you know, the dynamic as it has been very like there's, there's been a lot of friction some days um but the thing is I was like, I'm not doing anything wrong so I need you to understand that that mindset, which

00:25:12.620 - 00:25:23.100

is like, you know, like it's, I think the friction came more so for my dad but my mom has like always, always, always been like the one that's kind of like fighting for it, but like um I was like, look, the thing is I love what

00:25:23.100 - 00:25:35.050

I do on both ends. Male dominated, yes, and we're going to face the sexism absolutely still to this day, there's instances where I'm like, do I really want to do what I'm doing, but it is what it is and we deal with it because we know

00:25:35.050 - 00:25:47.510

that it's not always about the people, it's about the end product and you know how we feel about it. The same thing comes with henna. The, I think the worry um and this conversation I've had with a lot of family members is do you get the

00:25:47.510 - 00:26:01.990

respect that you deserve? Because a lot of the times it's like, okay, you know, the main thing is here, like, let's just do what we gotta do. I found that the dynamic has shifted in recent years because of the fact that more and more people like

00:26:02.000 - 00:26:14.900

our age are entering the market and we're bringing, not just okay, you know, I know how to do flowers with it, we're bringing the stories, we understand the history and we know the theories, we, we can go back to the roots and we can actually educate

00:26:14.910 - 00:26:27.200

our elders who grew up with this art and we can explain to them, you know, this paisley that you love. It comes from the breast of the peacock, these arches that you seem to love. You know, the the, they're very Islamic inspired because they come from

00:26:27.200 - 00:26:41.350

the mosques are the peaks of temples, like it all comes together as a story and it's no longer okay, the henna girls here that it is what it is, it's like, okay, here is like an educated, independent human being that wants to be a part of

00:26:41.350 - 00:26:55.110

this culture and it's trying to find her own story to fit in or his, you know, it could be either or um and uh let's let's kind of like open our hearts and open our minds to it, so that's something that I've been very privileged to

00:26:55.110 - 00:27:12.750

have experienced too. [AA]: That's um interesting that you brought that up, that like you have a wild, like it's no longer just kind of like a pastime. It's it's a very like intense educated role and the same thing I guess like my next question to go to,

00:27:12.760 - 00:27:25.400

do you see yourself as an artist? Is that, would you take on your role as an artist as someone who represents that South Asian art that's been brought to the community? [SK]: You know, if you would have asked me this question like four years ago, I think

00:27:25.410 - 00:27:37.890

that I was struggling with such a sense of imposter syndrome that I was like, no, I'm no, I'm just like literally doing what I'm trying to do. There is no definition for who I am, but like four years later, going through like all the, I think

00:27:37.900 - 00:27:56.480

trials, tribulations and stories. Yeah, 100%. I think that I am one out of hundreds, thousands of faces of people that represent South Asian culture and it's literally to say that we're not just to be like, we're not supposed to just fit in this clear cut little

00:27:56.480 - 00:28:11.900

box, okay, you know, you say South Asian or South Asian woman or South Asian period. Um, and, and like this is like sort of, this is the checklist that you fulfill, its like, okay, here's somebody who's doing this full time. Here's somebody else who's balancing this

00:28:11.900 - 00:28:26.050

as a side business. Here's somebody else who, you know, never thought that they would walk into it. And now all of a sudden you've given like multi, like a multi layered identity to something that you thought was just so simple and you've sort of unraveled all

00:28:26.050 - 00:28:40.280

these layers to tell this beautiful story of like, okay, I'm Sharmin tomorrow, you'll meet somebody else the day after that, you'll meet somebody else and then each person is going to have their story and you're gonna realize, kid, it all comes from the same root of

00:28:40.280 - 00:28:58.020

like passion, perseverance and, and like the heart to like want to do it. [AA]: That's, I'm touched. That's, that's absolutely beautiful. I love that. It's, it's such a fun thing. It's especially when I'm gonna come back to you with your religion. Um, when you go to the mosque

00:28:58.120 - 00:29:09.020

[indistinguishable] everyone's looking each other's hands. Like, let's see like what's going on? [SK]: Yeah, like did you get really, like, I've been getting texts like for the past week of like, you know, clients...COVID changed everything, but like clients have been like, okay, so, you know,

00:29:09.020 - 00:29:19.940

now that we've had a year of this, like how do you feel about it and I'm like, I feel more open to it than I did obviously a year ago because we are now like we're still in the unknown but we kind of know a little

00:29:19.940 - 00:29:33.370

bit better. But yeah, that's like I, I will be completely honest and say that I'm not very religious at all. That is like one thing that like where my family is very practicing, I am pretty much not, but like I still identify as Muslim in that

00:29:33.370 - 00:29:46.930

sense. Um but I think that that keeps me rooted to the religion and the culture. It's like okay I can, we might have all our differences but we can sit down at the end of the day and we can just do henna for the rest of

00:29:46.930 - 00:30:02.330

the evening and talk about our experiences and just laugh and love no judgment, no, you know, trying to like crossover and one up the other person, it's just like we're all level, that's what I love. Like when you're sitting across from somebody doing henna, you might

00:30:02.330 - 00:30:15.790

be the artist and they might be the client or vice versa or just you know, whatever friend. But in that like for those 5, 10, 15 minutes or like 4 to 8 hours if you're a bride, we're this, we're on the same playing field. Like there is

00:30:15.790 - 00:30:33.530

no, I'm better than you and you're better than me. We're just two human beings engaging in a conversation and it is the most humbling experience ever. [AA]: That's, that's I have no words because I just, that's such a powerful statement. Especially with um because obviously you're because

00:30:33.530 - 00:30:51.610

you're not religious so, and hendy...what did I just say? Henna is not exclusive just to the Muslim community. It's also into Hindu and other guys. So you're definitely meeting um all different types of religions and cultures and... [SK]: That's been the most beautiful thing and like

00:30:51.610 - 00:31:03.630

that's why when I say okay so I'm not very religious. I was like I love still like I still, I still identify as Muslim in that sense where it's like I understand my traditions, I understand sort of like the basics of it. I'm still practicing in

00:31:03.630 - 00:31:19.810

that sense. But like the beauty of it, is just the people that I have met, the cultures, the religions, the traditions like you know when I say I have uh like a multicultural group of friends. Yes. Like you know I know somebody else that's Muslim, like

00:31:19.810 - 00:31:34.760

that came from Hyderabad, I know somebody else that's Polish, you know they're Christian. I know someone who's Jewish. Like they're all different in that regard, But like weddings are a whole other ballgame, right? Corporate events like just just talking to people and and then you come to

00:31:34.760 - 00:31:50.260

learn, like we talk about henna, right? Like there's a henna ceremony like the Sikh religion, it means something completely different and the day that they choose to do henna is like completely different than something that like a Pakistani family would uh like a, like a time

00:31:50.260 - 00:32:04.290

that when a Pakistani family would hold like a Dholki or a Sangeet and then choose to do the henna and like slowly, even though that wasn't ever my discipline, you know, like um religious studies or anything, I've been able to pick up so many tidbits of

00:32:04.290 - 00:32:18.670

wisdom, especially from the elders, right? They say okay, you know, you're not, you're not Hindu. But let me tell you the history of like how something came about in terms of our weddings and our religion and it's just a beautiful thing to be able to

00:32:18.670 - 00:32:33.820

share in with that. [AA]: Yeah. And it just, it definitely brings you together more with the community. So you would be able to, would you, would you say that they being a henna artist definitely brings you closer to the community, bringing in... [SK]: Oh yeah, 100% 100%. It gives me,

00:32:33.820 - 00:32:45.550

it selfishly gives me this edge to be able to talk to so many more people because you know, you know, you went to a wedding, like for example, you say you're from the Caribbean, so there's like people with the background from Trinidad and Tobago and then

00:32:45.550 - 00:33:01.710

there's Guyana and the Guyanese traditions are very different from the Trinny traditions even though they are like they come from like the same subset of like communities and like that in itself, it opens up a whole conversation, right? So it's, it's beautiful because now you get

00:33:01.710 - 00:33:16.260

to differentiate from like, you know, from a whole, like from a sort of outsider looking in, somebody who just treats South Asians as South Asians. They see East Africa, they see the Caribbean, they'll be like, okay, that's the same. It's not the same. There's so many

00:33:16.260 - 00:33:32.440

differences. And like these little adventures like I like to call them, enabled me to like learn the difference and be more mindful, especially of like terminology. Like we say, ok, so I've recently and it was actually because of a wedding that I learned this. Um we

00:33:32.440 - 00:33:45.230

grew up saying, you know, West Indians, but then I learned from a very good friend of mine, like a bride who was actually a very good friend of mine now, who said the correct term has always been Caribbeans because West Indian was kind of like a derogatory

00:33:45.230 - 00:33:57.970

term that was like brought forward to the Western communities and like now everybody is using it and so I'm like, wow, I have to be more mindful of that now when I, when I, you know, like talk about the differences. [AA]: I didn't even know that that's

00:33:57.980 - 00:34:15.170

that's, wow, okay. Yeah, that's exactly it, right. It definitely brings into like the awareness of your like kind of all these things, you never would never have thought about before. Um on that note though of community. So obviously we are in a very Westernized society and

00:34:15.180 - 00:34:29.150

I want to touch upon like the kind of idea of cultural appropriation with henna. I just wanna get your thoughts on that. So like obviously right now it's very popular to be, to see henna is used not just weddings or religious functions anymore. Like if you

00:34:29.150 - 00:34:44.750

go to Wonderland, there's a henna booth set up there. If you go online, everyone's promoting like western style henna or like there's this company that's now come about, what's called, I think it's Ink Box... [SK]: It is Ink Box, I know about them. [AA]: Yeah, and it's basically henna, so

00:34:44.750 - 00:35:00.130

I just want to know like how do you feel like you think that's okay? Do you think...? [SK]: I yeah, no, for sure that's actually like that's a great thing to touch upon because I've definitely had...So, on a whole, I think education over everything. Everything

00:35:00.130 - 00:35:17.830

in um in a space where you're trying to promote a culture or show sort of what like a particular subset of people is about. I will always want to be a part of her like 100% be on board with. But I like I would underline education, like

00:35:17.830 - 00:35:32.200

you need to understand what the difference is and where sort of like you kind of crossed the line and you go too far. So like I grew up on Bollywood right? Like listening to Bollywood songs, like going to weddings, like dolling up, I love that stuff.

00:35:32.210 - 00:35:44.590

So for me, you know, seeing someone who wants to do that for example, like my best friend, she's, she's Filipino and she like, she grew up watching me love that. And so now she's like, oh my gosh, like, you know, I always tell her if I

00:35:44.590 - 00:35:57.040

ever get married, you are going to like, be in a sari, you are going to be in the jewelry, right? Um, that to me is, I like, I love that. Same with the henna thing. The whole like concept of like people approaching me, I've had very many

00:35:57.050 - 00:36:13.450

different audiences sort of approached me. When Ink Box became really big, people started asking about black henna and that's when the whole like educational aspect of that had to come back about because there's no such thing as black henna. Ink Box is actually um, I don't,

00:36:13.460 - 00:36:27.980

I, I don't want to quote them on what they are, but it's very similar to jagua, which comes from, I think it comes from the nectar of a fruit that grows in the Amazon. So the Amazonian tribes and people actually use that because it's all

00:36:27.980 - 00:36:42.690

natural and it stains like a blue black, but I think boxes a little bit more black. Um the concept of it though is very, very similar to henna in that sense where it's like, okay, have something that goes on your skin, a paste peel it

00:36:42.690 - 00:36:57.670

off, you get a stain. It's not henna though, because henna actually comes from the leaves of a plant that's grown in typically more like hot and dry climate and so that's like the first misconception that like everybody started seeing Ink Box and they were like okay, I

00:36:57.670 - 00:37:10.360

want black and I'm like, okay well let's let's take it back. You actually want jaguar or you want the Ink Box, whatever that's made of. Um and I thought like, I thought that was pretty cool because I think that it was, it opened up the floor to

00:37:10.360 - 00:37:25.760

conversation and like research right? Like because we now found something that came into the market with like a competitive edge of, okay, it's not just maroon or burgundy, it's black, I was compelled to do more research and educate myself. So in that instance I'm all about it

00:37:25.760 - 00:37:40.640

right? Like come come out, like come out with the competitive edge. Bring forward the designs that are obviously not disrespectful. Um and just be mindful of like what you're promoting and like for a company like Ink Box that has their platform, I'm sure they

00:37:40.640 - 00:37:55.890

do their research because I think that it's been like, I haven't seen anything in the news yet about them sort of, you know, like insulting a religion or a symbol, but on the other hand, the whole freckles fade, like phase, was just atrocious. I was just

00:37:55.890 - 00:38:11.180

like trying to figure out what was happening there because again, education over everything right? We, you're talking about the freckles, all I had in my feed where the freckle fails of like, you know, women doing it to their husbands, or like, people not realizing that henna gets

00:38:11.180 - 00:38:22.490

darker, so like, it's not, it's gonna look like chickenpox if you do it like too thick and stuff like that. And um, I think that that's where we just kind of go like, okay, but like why are you trying to do the freckles? Are you trying

00:38:22.490 - 00:38:36.610

to like, is this for more, for more of a European feel? Is this for more like of an experimentation thing? And if it's more experimentation, like makeup has made fantastic strides in the industry, why wouldn't you just do that? Um, and what are you like, what

00:38:36.610 - 00:38:53.200

are you trying to prove in that sense? Right? Like are you are you trying to use this medium um to show that it goes in places beyond your hands, like your hands and feet? Or are you trying to use this medium to sort of promote the importance of

00:38:53.210 - 00:39:31.350

being able to to like say, okay, I can do multiple things with this. Sorry, can I just pause you for one quick second? [AA]: Yeah, of course. [SK]: Sorry about that. [AA]: No worries. Uh I totally get it. My family was also being like extremely loud downstairs that... [SK]: Oh no, no, can you, can

00:39:31.350 - 00:39:43.320

you hear like, I'm just like right, like above the laundry room. And so like my washer/dryer was like,woosh woosh woosh and I'm like, oh my god, she's going to be like, I can't hear you! [AA]: I can barely hear it, it's all good. [SK]: Um, sorry, so yeah, so we were

00:39:43.320 - 00:39:57.130

talking so I think it's the intent, it's always like in and sort of like in the heart of the intent. Um I have, I've been part of conversations where a lot of individuals say okay, like a Caucasian person or somebody from the Western world, why are

00:39:57.130 - 00:40:09.550

they doing henna? And I'm like, well why aren't they doing henna? Because if I see this on somebody, you know of European descent, let's say, I'm going to ask the question, did you go to a wedding and oftentimes that opens the door to conversation? Um but

00:40:09.550 - 00:40:23.690

when I first started Shars Henna, what ended up happening was I realized, okay, there's a very traditional side to henna, and then there's like an extraordinarily modern but not tapped into side. So one of the first things I did was I curated a photo shoot with like this

00:40:23.690 - 00:40:35.370

photographer that I had just met um and this model who was like, you know her this gorgeous, the side of her head was shaved off, she had like amazing defined back and I was like, I want to do henna on the back and I want to

00:40:35.370 - 00:40:48.400

do henna on the face and I want to do henna, like in a very more modern feel because I want to like explore how far this medium as an art source can go. So in that sense, I was like, the first question that came to mind

00:40:48.400 - 00:41:00.970

was like, okay, you know, like there's so many people around me um South Asian that are like always wanting henna done, I'm like, are they gonna get offended? But then I was like, no, the purpose behind my piece is pretty clear. Um I'm proud of it

00:41:00.970 - 00:41:16.690

and I will like stand by it with like no negative intentions or no intent to like, you know, push like uh, like a culture or tradition into a place where I'm like, you know, it's not welcome. So I'm open to it. But let's have the conversation

00:41:16.690 - 00:41:28.760

is what I often tell people. Even not with me. Just, you know, do your research, right? Just don't, just don't throw it out there for the sake of starting a new trend or, or trying to like, you know, push it to different places that it might

00:41:28.760 - 00:41:43.100

not be welcome. [AA]: Yeah. And this conversation definitely comes around with the freckle thing and then also to a lesser extent, obviously not henna, but the mahjong thing that happened where people are trying to Westernize mahjong. [SK]: Yes, oh yeah, I saw that too. And then I'm like,

00:41:43.100 - 00:41:56.990

the interesting thing to me was, and I think, I don't know if it's, you know, maybe because we're in the western world was like, it's so, it's not lost on me that these trends tend to spike when like somebody that is not colored for lack of

00:41:56.990 - 00:42:12.490

a better word, like starts it and it blows up into this whole thing, but I'm like, whereas years and years of artists, you know, in their own communities trying to grow or you know, like traditions, like the game that have been around. Like these were interests

00:42:12.490 - 00:42:27.050

that were just kind of like buried underneath because you know, it was not part of a community that was considered it popular, so to speak. [AA]: Yeah. So it definitely is. And that's that's, that's, so how would you feel like about it becoming part of that? Like

00:42:27.060 - 00:42:40.040

popular? Like, like what would you say was a good way to kind of introduce it? That wasn't um I don't know if you answered it already, but like, it's like a good way to kind of say like, would you find it fair for a community for

00:42:40.050 - 00:42:54.090

a company like Ink Box? Not maybe Ink Box because they've done their research, but like, let's say, okay, how about this? Um, a popular celebrity was like, I thought it was pretty and so I got it done without kind of the context of it. Like how

00:42:54.090 - 00:43:08.180

would you feel kind of something about like that? [SK]: Well, if somebody has a platform to share, then you need to use your platform and share it for information. That's, that's always been my bottom line. You thought it was pretty, That's great. You got it done. Fantastic.

00:43:08.190 - 00:43:20.850

Tell me what happened when you got it done. Were you excited about the process? Did you know that It was natural? Was...are you going to credit your artist at the end of the day because that's a big one, right? We see all these lavish weddings

00:43:20.850 - 00:43:35.900

or we see all these celebrities and then like, you know, 20,000 comments later, somebody's like, okay, but like who's the artist? And I'm like, see you now had an opportunity. You wasted two opportunities. One to educate your clientele or your platform about what you're doing and why

00:43:35.900 - 00:43:52.880

you did it and two, to give credit and actually boost the artist that did the work. Like the one thing I will say, um which I kind of find like unfair, which is getting better nowadays, but I still find it is like somebody's gonna post um

00:43:52.890 - 00:44:10.280

you know, work. If you got a permanent tattoo, you would 100% credit the name of your tattoo artists and say, you know, um Jamil did something fantastic on me, look at the line work, look at the intricacy, I'm so proud of it. Here's my piece. Now,

00:44:10.280 - 00:44:26.180

on the flip side, you go to a fair or you go to a wedding and you're gonna be on instagram, right? You can take two seconds to learn the name of the person who has put the design on you and say, hey Faiza did a fantastic

00:44:26.180 - 00:44:40.570

job. You know, I had no idea that henna worked this way, right? Like you're not, I'm not saying promote the artist, I'm saying give credit where it's due at the end of the day because chances are something, you know, something that was the reason that spearheaded

00:44:40.570 - 00:44:55.860

you going there. So it's the information part for me, I'm fine, you know, you want to be Rihanna. Rihanna has that tattoo like since we're talking about celebrities, right? It is unreal. The amount of times I've been requested to recreate it, like on people's hands, they're

00:44:55.860 - 00:45:08.150

like, I really like the Riri tattoo and I'm like, I know exactly what you're talking about, but the first thing that came out when she came up with it was, did she get this as a henna design first? Because it is very, um, the line work

00:45:08.150 - 00:45:21.910

of her tattoo indicates very Moroccan roots, like the style of her design. So it's like, what, like where did that come from, what is the story of that? And then obviously, uh I was gonna say I'm a loser and I just like dig into the history

00:45:21.910 - 00:45:36.460

and I like try to find it, but I'm like, people are gonna look for that and like everything's at your fingertips nowadays. Instagram. I post something. People are going to read the caption. You're a celebrity, millions of people follow you at the end of the day, why

00:45:36.460 - 00:45:51.100

don't you give them the information that they need, should they make a decision in the future to do something similar to yours? So they're not doing it just because a celebrity did it? Like what's the reason? [AA]: Yeah, I 100% agree with that where it's just education is

00:45:51.100 - 00:46:05.940

very, very important when it comes to stuff like this. Um, so on the note of the actual designs of henna and how important and how symbolic they all are. I know some people are making them now into like things like tapestries or uh coverings for chairs

00:46:05.940 - 00:46:22.230

and stuff like that. Uh, do you think it's still appropriate to have it as furniture and as decorations? [SK]: So depending on what your intent is, like if it's for mass production, I think...So I'm gonna word this better. The very first thing that I learned when

00:46:22.230 - 00:46:35.490

I took the, when I took the Ash Kumar course was uh this concept of your creative eye and um the one thing that was told to us is that once you start doing henna, there's so many different styles of it, but once you start doing a

00:46:35.490 - 00:46:52.630

particular style you're gonna realize you gravitate towards things in the built environment, that remind you very much so of it. So for me, um I actually took that and I started like an Etsy shop when I finished and I was like and I started making like

00:46:52.640 - 00:47:04.780

little jewelry boxes and I was like this is like one of like the only pieces that I have left from their right and it was like all from like okay the inspiration of like the paisley are like the chakra, but like what was my intent? My

00:47:04.780 - 00:47:25.920

intent was literally just to display the symbols sort of as uh the pieces of interest like so you see the whole box and your eyes are automatically drawn to the chakra or the mandela or just the paisley. Um So I think that sharing the sort of medium

00:47:25.930 - 00:47:43.940

and into like multiple different art styles is one of the ways that we can bring forward that concept of education. Because I would hope that with that we share what inspired it yet again. Right? Oh it came from the concept of henna. I saw a henna design,

00:47:43.940 - 00:47:56.070

I really liked it. I wanted to practice it with something other than henna so that it didn't stain and this is what I came up with and then we start that conversation. Oh I really like paisleys. Did you know paisley's came from the breast of a peacock?

00:47:56.080 - 00:48:11.050

I really like chakras. Did you know chakras are supposed to have like sort of, well they have multiple meanings but they're they're like, you know, they align with their energy centers are in um like the Hindu religion, they're very important to them. Um and so if

00:48:11.060 - 00:48:26.760

you are able, I think it's just the purity, so if you're able to do it with like purity and just understand that this is sacred in other parts of the world to other people and you're not doing it like you're not doing a disservice to using

00:48:26.770 - 00:48:44.700

the elements, the designs, the shapes--by all means, right? Like go crazy, you want to design a pillowcase. Design a pillowcase just come up with an original intent that's all. [AA]: Yeah, that's perfect. Like that's that's such important things. But again we were coming back to all

00:48:44.700 - 00:48:59.110

the issues where it's like people are just taking things and not really paying attention to the importance behind them so we're not gatekeeping, it's more just be educated, and don't be... [SK]: Yeah. Ask the question right? Like so many times I I realize I do this with my brother who's

00:48:59.110 - 00:49:11.270

like super into like you know video editing design. Like I'll make a comment about a video that I just saw and he'll launch into the like entire like theory behind how they ended up doing it and why the effects were that way and I'm like damn

00:49:11.270 - 00:49:24.620

bro, I didn't even think of that, like that's so cool. But now I have a nugget of knowledge because I will now take that to somebody and I'll be like did you know this? And then they'll take that on and I think like art is...Art

00:49:24.620 - 00:49:39.440

has been in existence since the beginning of time. The mediums and the methodologies in which we do it. Some of them we borrow from our ancestors right, henna has progressed from the toothpick or like literally from just like crushed leaves and like palms down to the

00:49:39.440 - 00:49:57.430

toothpick to like the cones to like some people use like those syringes, its progress in many ways but with it the story has stayed and so if we can identify something as henna-inspired, make sure you keep on with that story and add to it and

00:49:57.430 - 00:50:17.220

add to the history. [AA]: Yeah that's yes, I don't know. You're so well versed with your words, I love listening to you speak. Um yeah, so that that's that was that kind of smart um covered most of it. Uh Yeah, so a little more maybe just kind of

00:50:17.220 - 00:50:31.690

technical stuff that you said you work, do you work anything like specific or you just kind of go where you're called, like just... [SK]: Yeah like I like personally selfishly I love bridal henna because it's like you get to spend the most amount of time with the

00:50:31.690 - 00:50:47.930

person. Um Also it's just like I've been very biased but like brides have more fun so I get to be like at the bride's side of the house. Um I have done events, I have done, I've done corporate events. I did like a volunteer thing

00:50:47.930 - 00:50:59.150

for, we talked about her this very, very well known artist, her name is uh Saira and she's from Breath of Henna. Um she kind of like couldn't make it last year so I was a step in and I got sort of, I got to experience the

00:50:59.150 - 00:51:11.320

world like okay this is what volunteering for henna is like because that's always something that I wanted to do. But the one thing I will say that like I, I cannot get my feet wet in is like, you know fairs or going into like, they call

00:51:11.320 - 00:51:27.960

them in South Asia, um like for the South Asian shows and stuff, they call them melas like, you know, e-melas [?] and stuff like that. It's more so because I cannot compete with the level of haggling. For me, it's like, here's an art, here's a price.

00:51:27.970 - 00:51:42.630

Like I've like flip side for me, if I go to somebody, I'm never going to be like, okay, you're putting all this work into it. I think you can do better for a price, right? Time, effort, essentially our backs. Like my back is pretty much shot

00:51:42.640 - 00:51:55.170

um like all of that, all of that plays a part into what we do and why we do it. So I had one experience like that and I was like, okay, never again, um it's just not my market, some people are fantastic at it. I personally

00:51:55.170 - 00:52:09.170

just, I'm not um and because of the fact that I like work full time, like in my other job, I really like to just make sure that I take on things that are like more evenings, weekends, so it gives me more time to spend and I'm

00:52:09.170 - 00:52:24.160

not running around as much as I usually do. [AA]: Of course, like a very busy life, I can imagine. [SK]: Well I do it to myself, that's what I tell people I do it to myself. It's funny because I sacrificed my social life a lot of the time

00:52:24.160 - 00:52:37.480

for it, because people are like, you're working, you're working, like yeah, but like, you know, it takes, it's not like um I...I want to say it's a blessing that I just, you know, never grew up with that silver spoon in my mouth, like, every opportunity it's

00:52:37.480 - 00:52:51.930

been worked for or you know, I'm grateful that I've had somebody who, like, stumbled upon what I was doing, be it in construction be it in henna, to have given me the opportunity to do what I do. So, for me it's like, never forget your

00:52:51.930 - 00:53:03.000

privilege, never forget the doors that have been open to you because you know that door that opened for you closed for someone else at the end of the day and if I can ever be in a position where I get to open a door for somebody

00:53:03.000 - 00:53:21.400

that's obviously I would want nothing more than that. [AA]: No, that's amazing. Like honestly, I am sorry, I just, I have, like, it's just, it's so amazing to see someone work, like working, diligent and be able to kind of do what they're passionate about and be excited

00:53:21.400 - 00:53:38.640

[SK]: It's possible, it's possible. Like, you got to love it and you've got to own it. And yes, there have been the tears, there have been the, there have been more breakdowns and smiles, I would say, right, but like, um I tell, I was, I told somebody this

00:53:38.640 - 00:53:49.600

once and I think it's stuck with me. I said I just want to go to bed at the end of the day, being intrinsically happy, and if I think that I've been able to do whatever I could, and, like, you know, given my space and my

00:53:49.600 - 00:54:05.400

dynamic to make it happen, then that's all I want to do, and if somebody is pushing me to, because they see something for me that maybe I don't see myself, then I need to give them that opportunity to to see that through whether it's a failure

00:54:05.400 - 00:54:20.600

or success, we'll find out, but just be happy with, like, and I'm not saying smile and like, oh my God, everything is amazing. But, like, if you can be proud of the work that you've done, and you can honestly say that you've given it your all,

00:54:20.600 - 00:54:36.940

like, what you're doing for your course it's amazing, you're taking your time out. Um I would hope that you are enjoying what you're learning in school, like that. Like, it doesn't have to be rainbow sunshine and diamonds, right? Like, that's all, like, and I like

00:54:36.940 - 00:54:56.020

the cherry on top at the end of the day, but just just be happy, like, with what you have where you are, and with what you've done with your, with your opportunities. [AA]: Like I said, amazing. Like, like, I have no words, uh I just wanna thank

00:54:56.020 - 00:55:05.830

you again, thank you for answering all my questions, Thank you for taking the time out of again your very busy day to answer all the questions. [SK]: No, oh my god, I've been looking forward to this, this has been the light of my week. I kid you not.

00:55:05.840 - 00:55:20.470

It's been something I've been looking forward to. And I am so grateful that you reached out because I was like, when, what is it, it was actually Saima who told me that you know, she had given my contact and it was like my thing has always been

00:55:20.470 - 00:55:31.570

like nobody really wants to know about me like who really wants to hear this story right? Like not in the like a selfish way, but I'm just kind of like I'm like there's so many interesting people in the world. I am not I am not close

00:55:31.570 - 00:55:42.960

to being like half as interesting as some of the people that I know, but I have a story at the end of the day and I'm so grateful that you have given me a platform to be able to. I have not said so many of these

00:55:42.960 - 00:55:56.820

things in so many years. So it's such a beautiful feeling. [AA]: And it's you know what every person is unique in every person's story is definitely important. It needs to be heard. Um okay, so we have to, we're over zoom. This is like a video call, we

00:55:56.820 - 00:56:13.970

have to address like very pink elephant in the room: COVID. [SK]: I was gonna say, if not for COVID, this would be a completely different set up. You would have walked out with henna on your hands by now because that's how I usually tell my stories. I'm

00:56:13.970 - 00:56:25.420

like I want to see you and I want you to be cool with the henna cone and uh we would just have at it. Yeah. It's Covid. [AA]: Yeah. That's amazing though the stories are being told and that's such an interesting thing. Especially in relation to this

00:56:25.420 - 00:56:39.270

oral history that we're doing. Your histories and stories are being told over henna cones over late nights and spending over each other's hands. Excuse me. Where like that's where your oral tradition comes from. Its over telling stories and meeting new people and that brings your story

00:56:39.280 - 00:56:55.980

even more complex, more dimensional. Um, I just want, I just have a couple questions. I just want to know because you are successfully running a beautiful henna of business. Like how has, how has COVID changed your business? How has it changed your working and stuff like that?

00:56:55.980 - 00:57:11.280

[SK]: Well, I will say, so for me, um basically like the products part of it, that was kind of um that was still happening. Obviously the shipping, because I ship Canada wide, was very like it was complicated for a little bit. So we had to hit

00:57:11.280 - 00:57:25.860

pause. In terms of the actual henna, I think I only did one or two brides last year and it was like and I'm so for me I'm privileged in that. Yes, I have a full time job. I have an income coming in. For so many people

00:57:25.860 - 00:57:40.520

that I know that do henna as a full time thing, this is their bread and butter for so many years and it completely shut down because when we went into lockdown, when we were, you know that distancing was there, we, you know, there's so many services

00:57:40.520 - 00:57:56.160

that people talk about right, no more spa days, no more salon, no more services. There's a reason my hair is this long, right. Henna is one of the most intimate services, also. We are not six ft apart. I cannot do your henna from here right?

00:57:56.160 - 00:58:06.970

Like at the end of the day, so many of us we're told, okay, you need to adopt instead of just like doing it with a henna cone and you need to wear gloves, you need to wear a mask, you need to make sure that you clean like

00:58:06.970 - 00:58:25.960

there's only so much that you can do without compromising the integrity of your art and your style and so when it shut down, it shut down for me like the henna, the, the people interaction. But what I found like even more beautiful than that was this

00:58:25.960 - 00:58:42.740

community that we found online of support. So yeah, I have Shars Henna is like the products and the import export and stuff like that. Um, When I just 2019 is when I actually signed on with the Ash Kumar brand from the UK as a professional

00:58:42.740 - 00:58:58.570

artist under their umbrella also. So I am with the team now and we were just, we were sort of brainstorming like on our WhatsApp because we're all over the world, like the States, like all over Canada and in London, um, we were like, everybody just stopped

00:58:58.570 - 00:59:15.930

doing henna because you know, no more events, whatever, but we're like, this is the time you take to hone your skill, this is the time you take for the self care, self love. I've always wanted to try this, Why don't I try this? So in the

00:59:15.940 - 00:59:31.200

business sense, the money stopped coming, but in the skill sense I would say it's been an opportunity for so many artists to grow their skill set. So when this does, it's not going to go away, but when it opens up and when, you know, the proper

00:59:31.200 - 00:59:46.240

measures are implemented and taken in place, you will see that there has been growth and so as much as Covid stopped everything, I think the beauty of it is that none of us or anybody that sort of wanted to keep on with it, chose not to

00:59:46.240 - 01:00:01.780

stay stagnant and they chose to grow in that time period. [AA]: That's amazing, especially with, again, when we can talk about community and having that kind of creating a community, it actually, and especially now where we're like, oh, we really need to behold like support one another,

01:00:01.780 - 01:00:16.840

all that kind of stuff for something that's so interesting to see um the community still come together, even when your practice, it's usually so intimate is basically can't be done anymore, it still grew and it still grows a very close connection. [SK]: We, we um you find

01:00:16.840 - 01:00:29.200

a way like you'll see so many artists, like if you're part of it and you're interested, you see so many artists from around the world. Um some of them held workshops, like these artists that are like world famous for what they do and like their stuff,

01:00:29.210 - 01:00:41.650

they chose to go on instagram live and hold a one hour workshop of like, okay, watch me. So you can see me do my work. Oh do you have a request in terms of what you want me to do and I'll show you how I draw

01:00:41.650 - 01:00:56.320

my flowers, I'll show you. So there was so much learning and there was so much love that was given through it, that you kind of forgot that you were alone in those pockets of time when you were kind of online and with that virtual community,

01:00:57.010 - 01:01:12.730

[AA]: that's amazing. And it's definitely one of those communities just never would think about because everyone is so caught up with like your sports and your spas and stuff like that, but the South Asian community is very outgoing and... [SK]: Weddings suffered, man, like the, I, I remember

01:01:12.730 - 01:01:28.050

going to small, much smaller wedding size is like at the beginning of the year, um or sorry, mid, like august, I think august is when we opened up for a little bit August September ish. Um and I remember like, you know these, these weddings that would

01:01:28.050 - 01:01:40.930

have like they would have invited like 8, 900 people were down to like 70 or 80. And like, yeah, like, so, I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm like, okay, I'm, I'm over the big weddings. I think I've like seen enough of them to

01:01:40.930 - 01:01:56.020

know that like, I'd rather put it down payment on a house than a wedding. Um so like the younger people were like, this is blessed. It is amazing because now I don't need to call my mechanic sons, uncles like, you know, brother, I can just have

01:01:56.020 - 01:02:13.320

my immediate family and like have an intimate event. So it worked. But it also like, I know that some of these small businesses, like the decor, like the catering, like the henna artist, they thrive on numbers. So they definitely felt that hit. [AA]: All right. I hope

01:02:13.320 - 01:02:27.300

I'm not keeping you too long. I can reconstruct... [SK]: No, by all means go for it. I'm down. My evening is yours. [AA]: Thank you so much again. Um, just some fun stuff now. Do you have any favorite type of memories are like moments that you've

01:02:27.300 - 01:02:42.510

done or events that you played that you want to share if you'd like to. [SK]: Oh man. Um yeah, so there was uh so, so one of my favorite memories is actually rooted, it's like almost, it almost seems so insignificant. So it's actually rooted in like this,

01:02:42.510 - 01:02:56.470

one of um I went to the groom's house to do henna on like the groom's side of the family, like the moms, the aunts, the cousins and there was a family visiting from the UK and we were doing the henna, they were just like quick simple

01:02:56.470 - 01:03:10.080

strips and I remember her, there was, there was a woman that I was talking to, we get talking about like, what do we do aside from like when we're not attending weddings and she's like, and I'm like, you know, I have a background in civil engineering

01:03:10.080 - 01:03:21.620

technology. Um, I love construction, I, I know that's kind of weird to hear like a henna artist all into weddings and all of a sudden she's like, you know, putting on her steel toes the next day, I like going to sites and she's like, no, no,

01:03:21.620 - 01:03:38.290

no, I am a software engineer for like one of the, one of the biggest tech companies in the UK and she's like up until I think three, two years ago, I was the only female for the past 15 years that was in that department and now I

01:03:38.290 - 01:03:53.890

spearhead it and I manage it and I remember this feeling of like, I'm in a place where, you know, I'm not doing the work that I normally do, but I'm having this very normal conversation with somebody who technically lives like an eight hour flight away about the

01:03:53.890 - 01:04:10.180

same biases we face in these industries like tech engineering, construction, um and we're, you know, we're bonding over henna and I know that that's weird, like, I mean it's a one off, like when you, when you think about like, okay, what is one of your favorite

01:04:10.180 - 01:04:26.170

memories? Like the reason I feel that way, like I kind of like really, really, really love it is because I was able to bond with somebody over something that is completely different into a type of work that we're both like involved in and that was just,

01:04:26.180 - 01:04:37.720

it's just something I take with me because I'm like, I would have never met this woman, like, you know, like she's part of a family and I don't know, she does, she's like, God knows where she lives. I've never seen her since then. This was like

01:04:37.720 - 01:04:52.430

three years ago, but it was just like this moment of like, we're all interconnected in some way and it's just like a very, like, very good reminder of that. [AA]: Yeah, and stuff I'm sure is very like, you're kind of meeting people who have been through the

01:04:52.430 - 01:05:06.040

very sick, same struggles kind of no matter where you are and like just one side or the other, right? [SK]: So yeah, I think that's just like the underlying theme, like you're asking me if I have any favorites, my favorite moments are just like when humanity supersedes

01:05:06.040 - 01:05:21.470

everything, there was, there was this wedding that I went to where they had uh it was, it was a banquet hall, like a very small banquet hall in Vaughn and there was a company that they had hired or sorry, they had, they had hired a company

01:05:21.470 - 01:05:32.910

to do the catering and then they had the wait staff on him and I remember this girl um she was like, you know, I came a little bit early so I was just kind of like talking to her, so she had very recently immigrated, I think

01:05:32.910 - 01:05:48.450

she was from Punjab um and she was just telling me, you know, I'm doing this like as a side thing because I'm in school and I need to, you know, pay for rent and things like that and I was doing henna the whole evening and typically

01:05:48.450 - 01:05:59.670

my work ethic is, I will start the henna, I don't like to eat anything or like, you know, people like families are really, really sweet, they'll be like, go eat, you know, we're all eating whatever, I'm like, I just want to work straight through and then

01:05:59.670 - 01:06:12.870

at the end of the, at the end of the night I'll take something like if, if you're like super insistent, I'll take something to go with me just, you know, not to be rude and so this girl like all evening, like she was serving the family

01:06:12.870 - 01:06:26.150

and everything, but like every hour she would come by and she would like make sure that I had a glass of water and um, typically when I'm at these events, I'm like the last one to leave, usually they ask you to like stay like, you know,

01:06:26.150 - 01:06:37.210

we have extra people whatever. So I remember leaving there, I think it was like 1:30 in the morning. I was like exhausted and like I'm working the next day I got to get home. But this girl, like, she sort of just came out and she

01:06:37.210 - 01:06:49.070

was like waiting for me with a tray full of food and she's like, I know you didn't eat all evening. I really want you to eat and then you can go home. And I was like, no, don't worry about it, you have to go to. But

01:06:49.070 - 01:07:02.700

like she sat with me and made sure that I ate before I left and I remember going home and I was like, it's like, you know, I don't get like, this is like one of the very rare moments where I just get teary eyed about it

01:07:02.700 - 01:07:17.720

because I'm like, in essence, somebody who basically had a lot less than me was just giving me so much more than I ever gave back. And I was like, it's just a very, like I said humbling experience. There are beautiful people in this world and it doesn't

01:07:17.720 - 01:07:31.050

matter what you do and how you do it, like humanity is the thing that connects you and it's just, it's just a beautiful woman. And I've kept it like close to my heart for very many years. Since then. [AA]: That's, that's beautiful. Like I don't think people

01:07:31.050 - 01:07:43.100

realize how such a small act of kindness can really make someone's day, especially for someone who's been working bent over, you know. [SK]: And I don't think about these things, right? I'm like, oh, you know, they're so sweet. It's happened so many times, but like, it was

01:07:43.100 - 01:07:55.580

just like something in the action of like somebody literally staying past their shift to make sure that somebody else is taken care of when you have no connection to them, you have nothing. And I felt so bad because I was like, I wanted to do your henna

01:07:55.580 - 01:08:06.470

for you because you know, I'm here, whatever. But she had to like go clean up and she's like, oh, it's gonna smudge. And it's just like, I often think back and I'm like, you know what, I honestly hope, I always tell people, I'm like, when something

01:08:06.470 - 01:08:18.850

happens and I dodged something negative, I'm like, somebody's, somebody's blessings were with me at the end of the day. And I'm like, I feel like in so many of these instances, um, like that I, that I've been a part of it. Somebody's blessing that's been watching

01:08:18.850 - 01:08:33.520

over me and like I hope the best for her. I hope she's, you know, succeeded in all that she's wanted to do, right. It's just um, these are like really small reminders of, like I came on as an artist, but I'm taking back like all this

01:08:33.520 - 01:08:48.720

like information of people and how we're supposed to treat each other and like what it takes to be a leader and a mentor and it's just like, none of you like all these things that are like spread across all platforms, right? And it's just you put

01:08:48.720 - 01:09:03.000

it in the title of like a neat little 'okay I'm a henna artist' but it's just, I wouldn't want to do anything else. [AA]: Yeah, and it definitely, it's, it's such a, like I said before this layered, beautiful thing where it's like, there's just so much to go into

01:09:03.000 - 01:09:15.180

and so much to like, you're not just one thing and that's what the beautiful thing about having and having the opportunity to talk to you. There's so many different things just like in one person where you have Indian roots, but there's also some kind of uh

01:09:15.190 - 01:09:33.250

East or North African. [SK]: Uh East African. Yeah. [SK]: And then like you're, you're Canadian, you're born here and you also have all of that. You have UK influence also from your teaching. It's such a... [SK]: It's like a, yeah, it's like, so we call Ontario a melting pot. I'm like, I'm

01:09:33.250 - 01:09:51.210

honestly a melting pot. I love and like, I love it. I know that people, I grew up facing a lot of different um, discrimination. For me, it was like trying to identify how I'm Indian by identifying how I'm East African because oftentimes like growing up in

01:09:51.220 - 01:10:06.430

like in that pocket, it's the early two thousand's, right where a lot of people didn't. I think that like our generation was still trying to come to terms with the fact that okay, somebody can be Indian and not come from India, right? Um somebody can like

01:10:06.440 - 01:10:21.220

enjoy the fruits of like their cultures, labors and still be born and raised here. It's just, we tend to do things with a little bit more open mindedness. We do it with a little bit more. Um, I would say like of the Canadian flare like a

01:10:21.220 - 01:10:34.000

western flair and that too sometimes puts us in trouble because you go back home and you were, you would try to like, you know impose if I were trying to impose my way of life and my work ethic and like things like that in a place

01:10:34.000 - 01:10:46.290

like from where my parents came from, I would be getting a lot of friction because you know, somebody like my age to be married, you should have like two kids by now. Like why are you not worrying about settling a house and why are you trying

01:10:46.290 - 01:10:58.640

to figure out a career, why are you trying to pave the way as a pioneer of like, you know henna in the western world or something like that. Um, and these are not things that I'm like, you know blind to, it's just that you can choose

01:10:58.650 - 01:11:12.270

how your story goes. You can choose to be bogged down by those box or you can choose to use that information to tell a story and and educate the types of people that might ask you the same question later. Well, like in a more eloquent

01:11:12.270 - 01:11:23.460

way right? Rather than just being like, I don't know man, my parents just came from Africa, I don't know what to tell you man. Like it is what it is. [AA]: You have all this education and then again on top of learning all these beautiful stories from

01:11:23.460 - 01:11:33.590

everyone. So such a mishmash and then I'm sure like it's one of those things too where like now you learn like all these terms, all these kind things like, oh, but you sound like you're from there. No, I just speak with a lot of those people

01:11:33.590 - 01:11:47.780

and I'm well versed in so many different cultures. Oh yes, yeah, that's pretty much it. Unless you, like, is there anything that you like, they're thinking about your, like, I really want to mention that or maybe we didn't go into far enough detail when we were

01:11:47.790 - 01:12:06.160

speaking about it. [SK]: Um, I think, well, so I see I have your questions beside me too. If I need to answer anything, you, you talked about sacrifices to adapt the community around. Um, and I think in that when I think about that, I would say anybody

01:12:06.160 - 01:12:21.770

who has tried to whether they have succeeded or they have not been successful to like try to like infiltrate, like lesser known pocket of an industry, for example, henna is one of them. Um we don't shut a lot of light on it, but like hair

01:12:21.770 - 01:12:41.030

and makeup, like in an affiliation with that like decor or things like that. Um all these individuals have had to choose to sacrifice something, be it your time, the ability to do like other things. Um and so I think that when we talk to people and

01:12:41.030 - 01:12:56.860

we, when we like learn about their experiences, like I mean I'm doing all the talking today, but I'm sure you've had your fair share of experiences. It's important to be cognizant of the fact that everybody has chosen to sacrifice something. The difference is what have they

01:12:56.870 - 01:13:09.860

done with that sacrifice that they've chosen to wallow in it and say, okay because of this, I couldn't do X, Y, zed and therefore this is who I am, or have you chosen to take that and make it a part of your essence and who

01:13:09.860 - 01:13:26.230

you are, your brand, your story. When I say brand, you don't have to be an established company, I just mean your personal entity. And I think that the, I think that the names that you see out there of any business, of any, you know, be it

01:13:26.230 - 01:13:41.260

in construction, be it in order to be it in, you know, theory politics science is whatever it is when you see something out there, just like we have to be willing to understand the fact that somebody chose to put themselves out there. They chose that risk

01:13:41.750 - 01:13:54.990

and how it's reciprocated is all up to the environment around them. But if we can choose to just be like a little bit more mindful or ask a little bit more in terms of the question that we have sitting on the top uh the tip of

01:13:54.990 - 01:14:09.140

our tongue. Um and it's just like all roots back into the whole educational bit if we want to educate ourselves a bit more you are going to be so surprised but with the information that you're going to learn not just the stories but of like hard

01:14:09.140 - 01:14:23.340

facts, truths, the society that we live in and we are very very privileged to be where we are like Peel is a beautiful place, you can go from one community to the next and nobody's gonna bat an eye right? You're gonna go into an Italian bakery

01:14:23.340 - 01:14:35.290

to buy your bread. But then on the flip side you're going to Asian Food Center to buy your spices and that's the norm and not a lot of people know that because I think that we've been born raised and grown up here. So when I took like

01:14:35.290 - 01:14:51.670

my business from here just taking it as far as Newmarket like I had a booking there. It was a very different dynamic right? How people chose to accept it, How they chose to understand the questions that they had about it, And so it's um understand,

01:14:51.670 - 01:15:06.740

understand what you're sacrificing, but also it's your responsibility as a person representing your brand, that you you have you formed the narrative, so if you're going to brush it off and be rude and like, talk about things like, you know, this is my this is my

01:15:06.750 - 01:15:18.190

um this is my opinion on it, and it's hard fact and that's it. You're gonna find that very you're going to have a lot more people that are less willing to hear you out versus let's be open to a conversation, let's be willing to admit that

01:15:18.190 - 01:15:28.880

I might be wrong, I might have said things in this whole interview that might somebody might come back to me with it and say, okay, you know what, you're totally wrong on this, which is fine, but that's how you start the dynamic of like, a really

01:15:28.880 - 01:15:47.950

good conversation. [AA]: Yeah, and that's that's exactly it, where it's just everyone has their own way of it. And it's such an interesting thing that you brought it up, where it's like kids is someone, one kind of spokesperson for the community and everyone represents the community as

01:15:47.950 - 01:16:03.570

a whole, especially just kind of being as a visual, like part of the group and you're kind of going back to even like with Rihanna and stuff like that, or like this uh with celebrities who have a platform, like should they be representing the community? Like

01:16:03.570 - 01:16:23.480

did they as people that have a platform where people are following them, should they use that platform to be like educate people to help people to understand and spread the word about it? So it is very interesting just to write, remember that like everyone has, and

01:16:23.480 - 01:16:33.730

[SK]: I have seen, I have seen celebrities sort of own up to it more and that's not so that's not to say okay, like you know Rihanna substance of the South asian community, and then she starts talking on behalf of like everything that she's done, but in

01:16:33.730 - 01:16:46.300

South Asian influence, it's like like something as simple as saying, hey, you know what, I saw this design, I thought it was really pretty back to what you were saying, I don't really know the roots, but I know that it was influenced by something that comes

01:16:46.300 - 01:17:00.940

from like sort of the Indian um like like something of an Indian inspiration, I'd be willing to learn more, You have now taken accountability to say okay, I'm willing to grow, I just Yes, because I have a platform, doesn't mean I know everything, but you've now

01:17:00.950 - 01:17:15.490

opened the door to have somebody try and educate you also and you've like from the flip side, like seeing that I would be proud of the fact that I look up to this person, we had a celebrity or a mentor, because you've finally been able to

01:17:15.490 - 01:17:28.490

own the fact that you don't know, like we don't, nobody knows everything at the end of the day and the funny thing about it is um I'm sure you've seen the memes, I'm sure you've seen the Instagram videos about everything, like in terms of the South

01:17:28.490 - 01:17:44.950

Asian culture in spite of it all. I think that the big, like take away from like what we choose to do and how we choose to do it is the South Asian community is very accepting. They will, they will shower you with love. It's just are

01:17:44.950 - 01:17:58.410

you going to take that love and make it something else? And like, you know, painted in a negative light, are you going to take that and learn from it and then send your own sort of form of love back? Like I've, you know, we've had instances where

01:17:58.410 - 01:18:12.030

it's not been that great, but it could just be a bad day. They could just not have known how to speak to the situation. Um and often times when we go back, like I've gone back and I've had a conversation with that individual or that community,

01:18:12.220 - 01:18:26.940

it's often rooted in some form of an apology or you know what, we just didn't know any better. So it's a, it's a beautiful thing and I'm actually super grateful that you guys are trying to shed light on a community that is very accepting. [AA]: Yeah, Again,

01:18:26.940 - 01:18:39.340

thank you so much for your time. Um and to share your story with us and will be forever grateful to get an opportunity to speak to you. I know I've said so many times, but like I just, I love hearing these stories and your story is so

01:18:39.340 - 01:18:52.690

beautiful and I love just learning about especially specifically like a henna artists, not something that someone would like, I I just it's not, it's not, I don't want to say common, but like... [SK]: No, it's fair. That's fair to say it's not normal, it's not the norm,

01:18:52.690 - 01:19:06.960

right? You can't just walk out of there and be like, okay, yes, I'm an abstract artist. I show in galleries, I'm like, yeah, I'm a henna artist, I too abstract but like skin is my medium, right? But on the flip side, very selfishly, that is the

01:19:06.960 - 01:19:21.290

coolest thing I get to do. [AA]: It's such an interesting thing because like how many people, like a tattoo artists are a little bit different but like, because I feel like like we were mentioning henna has a very deep history with it because the given tattoos kind

01:19:21.290 - 01:19:39.300

of lose like obviously tattoos have a very deep meaning behind that as well, but it's it's lost that meaning as it's become so in like kind of basically aesthetics in Western culture, henna artists coming back so it's such a deep and rich uh thing to have

01:19:39.310 - 01:20:02.150

so it's definitely something you um think about. [SK]: Yeah, no, it's it's definitely um I'm grateful that the whole conversation about the designs and the history has opened up because often times people don't know like everybody says henna originates from India. It actually never originated from India actually.

01:20:02.160 - 01:20:22.490

It was actually prevalent in the days of when Cleopatra existed. And so it started off in Egypt like as like an export like as a trade situation when people used to trade henna for um other rarities and Cleopatra used to use it and then it went

01:20:22.490 - 01:20:37.540

over to Turkey and then it's only through reflexology that they found henna. Like the whole reason behind it being on your hands is that when you put it on the heat centers of your body, it has the ability to calm you. And so the reason it

01:20:37.540 - 01:20:55.170

got affiliated with weddings is because they would...back in the day, it was way more common arranged marriages. Right? So the, the families would put henna like in the middle of the palms and the tips of the fingers to calm the bride before her wedding

01:20:55.170 - 01:21:08.890

so that she wouldn't be, you know, like a massive nerves and like it would be at the palms of the feet. And then it originated to India. And that's where it picked up the influence of um the shapes coming from mosques temples like like you said

01:21:08.890 - 01:21:25.030

sacred, like the peacocks, the elephants. And so it has a, we think that the history started somewhere and it's got a deeper history that came from somewhere else and it's just that's the story, right? Like we never would have known. I never would have known had

01:21:25.030 - 01:21:36.330

I not learned. But I, how many times do you get to go to a wedding and tell somebody that, okay, you know this like paisley that you really like comes from the breast of the peacock or a lot of people call them cashews. And I'm like,

01:21:36.330 - 01:21:48.840

it's actually not a cashew, it's actually called the paisley and it's just, I don't know, it's fun. It's fun. Tidbits of knowledge of education. Um And like, I don't know, I think the best part about it is that it's free at the end of the day,

01:21:48.850 - 01:22:03.560

right? If I get to walk or walk away with more knowledge than I had coming in, then how that and I'm here for it. [AA]: I've learned so much and it's not just money exchange. It's this cultural, this education exchange. It costs nothing to educate and being

01:22:03.570 - 01:22:20.960

um be part of um I think my one question is that that's kind of like on my own and I just have my personal um do you see differences in um like when you go to different religious functions, like do they want like certain designs when

01:22:20.960 - 01:22:37.620

you go to like maybe a Muslim function, which is like a Sikh function. [SK]: So I definitely it okay, so that that's that question I think needs to be answered in two parts. So like depending on it depends on the families and it depends on where they

01:22:37.620 - 01:22:54.730

come from in a sense. So it's like what I've noticed is um more westernized households and I'm saying like, you know, 1st 2nd 3rd generation born and raised in Canada, they want more eloquent, simple. Maybe the bride is going to go all out. But I've

01:22:54.730 - 01:23:08.230

found often that like the family is one, it's simpler. But then on the flip side you go to a Punjabi household who really, you know, their weddings are like eight day affairs like I don't even know how they do. I don't know how the bride and

01:23:08.230 - 01:23:25.400

groom survived that um they like they've grown up with like a very rich culture and henna has been very rich in terms of all their weddings. So you're find that the moms, the aunties, like everybody wants like full hands, they want more like they want that

01:23:25.400 - 01:23:41.120

like that full like um that feeling of like okay, she is the bride. Like I'm the bride's mom right? So it's one thing, there is definitely a theme that I've noticed. Um and so it's like, I often uh like not to be disrespectful or anything. I'm

01:23:41.120 - 01:23:54.080

like, okay, typically a Punjabi household is gonna want way more um like a Pakistani household is going to want like like um sort of like a medium amount in terms of like, you know, like more of like a Mandela and like the full fingers or

01:23:54.080 - 01:24:07.620

like um uh you want the intricate henna, but you don't want it up to here. You want it like maybe just like halfway. And then somebody like we were talking about like the more so the Caribbean households are now getting into it or like they're still

01:24:07.620 - 01:24:21.020

in that I'm going to dip my toe in. So let's do a little bit of this and then like, let's figure it out. Um So they're just like more so like on the lighter side, but regardless, like every experience is always so unique and sometimes they

01:24:21.020 - 01:24:32.990

surprise me, like I've had, you know, like a bride um uh like a Guyanese bride and she's been like, okay, I want to go all out. Whereas her mom was like, absolutely not. I just want like two dots in the center of my head

01:24:32.990 - 01:24:47.870

and that's it. And it's fun. [AA]: That's that's that's that's so interesting because it comes back to this whole cultural like were they born here? Were they not like where like where they're influencing from all that kind of stuff? And then on top of that is you

01:24:47.870 - 01:25:00.940

as an artist, like where have you been, where have you seen like what can you do for me what I ask you? So amazing. I I can't thank you enough for answering all my questions and taking the time out of your day. I've learned so much

01:25:00.940 - 01:25:17.670

today. I just just just so many anything, you know, I learned about henna today and um just personally I was so interested because I, when like Eid comes around, I don't, I don't know anybody that does Hannah so you do so excited because I've like I've

01:25:17.680 - 01:25:27.110

done like the store bought henna like you go to the flea market and they sell henna there, so I'm like all right, grab a cone and I'm just practicing my sister and myself and like that was it. So to learn about the history to learn how

01:25:27.120 - 01:25:45.550

deep it's become in Western civilization basically. It's just, it's so beautiful. [SK]: I think you're, sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you but you were talking about the store bough henna. Um I think that like personally the interest in education for henna actually came from the fact

01:25:45.550 - 01:25:59.000

that like the store bought henna is full of chemical ridden ingredients. Like you don't know what's in there. Henna is not supposed to be lasting you six months or eight months or nine months in a refrigerator. It's actually a perishable product. So like I make mine

01:25:59.000 - 01:26:14.330

from scratch now obviously like I know like there's eucalyptus oil, there's water, this kind of powder, those are the three ingredients. It comes up with a rich stain, like that's all it takes and typically like natural henna should not like smell bad, it should not be

01:26:14.340 - 01:26:26.930

something that you look at and you like later like no no no because a lot of the men in the family, they tend to do that, they're like oh my God, I'm out, there's a henna artists, like I hate the smell of henna and um I

01:26:26.940 - 01:26:39.540

think you asked me that's like what is like one of my favorite parts of it, one of my favorite parts of it is turning a non believer into a believer just by the use of like proper henna product. I kid you not, it it literally is

01:26:39.540 - 01:26:53.670

like you will see I had a group come by who's like, I'm probably gonna tell my wife like to just like sleep on the like sleep on the sleep on another bed because like I really don't want the like smell of henna like infiltrating and then

01:26:53.670 - 01:27:08.760

literally a couple hours later come back and be like why doesn't this smell the way that I remember it too and then you have to explain to them that you're used to the crappy stuff. This is legit, there's a difference. [AA]: Yeah, no definitely, especially recently everyone's

01:27:08.760 - 01:27:21.210

like on line and it's like you shouldn't be using black head and nothing should smell and it's definitely become.. [AA]: You shouldn't because it's chemical ridden but like the problem is it's not just like the chemicals we use a lot of things with chemicals in there, they

01:27:21.220 - 01:27:36.180

contain um the chemicals contain this ingredient that's a cancer causing agent. So you've seen horror stories of like burns those burn scar for life, like the black henna and that's why we say there's no such thing as black henna because what it actually is is like um

01:27:36.180 - 01:27:48.190

I know that I know this because of a Sudanese friend of mine, a lot of the Sudanese culture over here before they discovered like a sort of like a more natural way about it. They were using hair dye, they were using like that big and hair

01:27:48.190 - 01:28:02.070

dye that you get from like asian food center, mixing it with water and the misconception. Is that okay? I have dark skin henna isn't gonna stain but that it's a misconception because if you have natural henna, it doesn't matter what your skin color is, it stains

01:28:02.070 - 01:28:17.470

and stains well. So um it's just, it's been that type of education is still, it's still hard, it's still so hard to go into those communities. Um and personally like try to be an advocate for it because where the children will listen because you know, they're

01:28:17.470 - 01:28:31.730

more open minded and used to sort of adapting to the times. Usually the mothers and the grandmothers would be like normal, this is the way we've always done it will continue doing it not realizing that it's actually very harmful. [AA]: Yeah, it's definitely one of those things,

01:28:31.730 - 01:28:49.600

right? Especially in communities where it's been back so much, it's hard to change tradition, right? Yeah, Again, thank you so much for your time. I'm gonna... [SK]: Thank you, I appreciate you, thank you for taking the time the evening, the back and forth. Being so patient, I

01:28:49.600 - 01:28:50.540

really appreciate it.