00:00:02.640 - 00:00:20.550

[Rijja Moeen]: Okay, we're recording so high. Before we begin, I want to confirm that I have your oral consent to conduct this interview for the South Asian Oral Histories in Peel Project. [Saima Hussain]: Yeah. You have my consent. [RM]: Okay. So we're just going to start off from with some general

00:00:20.550 - 00:00:37.910

questions. So would you please give me your full name and your pronouns if you're comfortable ask if I'm if you're comfortable sharing? [SH]: Sure. Yeah. My full name is Saima Hussain and my pronouns, are she/her. [RM]: Okay. Do you mind saying what year you were born

00:00:37.920 - 00:01:02.930

and where? [ [SH]: Okay fine. I was born in 1974 and I was born in Karachi Pakistan. [RM]: Okay. Uh could you provide some clarity on your identification? Uh such as your race, gender, sexuality. [SH]: Okay. So I'm a woman. I consider myself a Muslim. I am well, I don't consider

00:01:02.930 - 00:01:29.770

myself, I am Muslim and I'm South Asian and I think in terms of context of Canada, I also identify us an immigrant. [RM]: Okay, that's cool. Ah what area of Peel Region do you currently live in [SH]: Mississauga. [RM]: Uh what languages do you speak? [SH]: English and Urdu. [SH]: Okay.

00:01:29.840 - 00:01:48.710

[SH]: And under Urdu, there you go, and I guess like you could also say speak Hindi because orally they both sound the same. [RM]: Yes. Okay. So do you mind telling me about your educational background? [SH]: Sure. So I did my high school which is basically O Levels and

00:01:48.720 - 00:02:10.650

A Levels in Pakistan and then I moved, when I moved here with my parents, I was going straight into university at 18. And so I did my bachelor's honors and my Master's at UofT. Uh and then actually my masters was in South Asian Studies. [RM]: Very interesting. [SH]: Uh huh. Thank

00:02:10.650 - 00:02:29.220

you. Yeah and oh my gosh! In my identities. I hope I did mention South Asian. [RM]: Yes, you did. [SH]: Really? Good. So yeah, so my masters was in South Asian Studies, my bachelor's degree was English and history. And then I worked, in fact, here in Canada, I

00:02:29.220 - 00:02:51.260

worked in Pakistan, I came back here and then just recently I got my second masters degree in library science. [RM]: It's really nice. Um Is there any particular reason why you chose to pursue a master's in South Asian Studies from the University of Toronto. [SH]: Um Yeah, so

00:02:51.260 - 00:03:14.060

as I was finishing off my undergrad, I was interested in a particular topic for research to study further and when I pursued that after graduation we just figured out with my professors that South, the South Asian Studies department, the program would be the best place for

00:03:14.060 - 00:03:36.240

me to uh do that study because it was a mix of English literature, of history, religion and history, I think I said that. And so yeah, the South Asian department brought all of that together. [RM]: Okay. Ah would you mind telling me about your family?

00:03:36.240 - 00:03:54.830

[SH]: Sure. So I as I mentioned I came here with my parents and my siblings. So my parents are uh they live here half the year and they spend the winter back in Pakistan now since they both retired and I have two brothers, um and they are both

00:03:54.840 - 00:04:18.550

uh living in their own homes with their families. And uh my sister who came with us, she passed away 14 years ago. She had special needs. And so uh and here I am in my condo. [RM]: Sorry to hear about your sister. Okay. Um so how would

00:04:18.550 - 00:04:37.860

you define your relationship with your immediate family? [SH]: It's comfortable my relationship with my family with my brothers I'm very close to. With my sisters in law I'm especially close to and I have four nephews. So my brothers have two sons each. Um and so they range

00:04:37.860 - 00:04:56.230

in ages from 14 to 6. And so I'm their favorite aunt because I work at the library and I bring them books. So yeah, so no one can beat me. Okay. [RM]: And I mean you mentioned that you're really close with your family. I just wanted to

00:04:56.230 - 00:05:14.510

know what sorts of relationships are really important to you, aside of family could be friends and other things like that. [SH]: Um Yeah, so I'm in the situation that I came here when I was 18 and so I already had strong relations, my friends, family back

00:05:14.510 - 00:05:35.150

in Pakistan. So I've managed to maintain those friendships back there as well. And the whole uh process of also moving back after my Aasters to work there for five years um at a newspaper in Pakistan that also sort of helped me to rekindle those ties, revisit

00:05:35.150 - 00:05:52.870

them. And so I have maintained my friendships back in Pakistan maintained my university friendships. I'm still friends with the people I first met when I moved here. And so um and my friends are all from all backgrounds my closest friend uh where I lived in the

00:05:52.870 - 00:06:19.410

condos when I first moved here um is Armenian from Lebanon. And so um we love to share our holidays. You know foods, we're both foodies. So yeah so I enjoy friendships outside of the home. People of all backgrounds. [RM]: Okay uh so what do you currently do? [SH]: Uh

00:06:19.420 - 00:06:48.190

as in work? [RM]: Yes [SH]: I work as a library supervisor for the Mississauga library. [RM]: Okay so and I know that you are a journalist and writer. Right so how has your experience as a journalist and writer in Canada been so far? SH]: Um So my dream was to

00:06:48.190 - 00:07:04.590

work in journalism in Canada because after my degree in Masters and South Asian Studies I uh decided, I was like, what do I want to do now? Because I was already working for UofT as an admissions counselor but I knew that I wanted to

00:07:04.600 - 00:07:24.770

use my Master's degree somehow. And so to be honest before I even managed to look around here very much I was offered a position at the Dawn newspaper in Pakistan so I thought you know it's back in South Asia it's using what I studied and uh good international

00:07:24.770 - 00:07:46.250

experience. So I went back and I worked there for five years. And uh I worked my way up to being the book's editor in which I was in charge of the weekly um book section and I was paid to read new books, meet publishers, meet authors.

00:07:47.240 - 00:07:59.770

And I said that I was paid to do this because I would have done it for free in any case because this was really my dream. And so um, it was great and then I moved back here and I thought, all right, I'm going to do

00:07:59.770 - 00:08:15.410

the same thing here. But obviously it was harder. It was... When you come here, there are so many other people, so many, I just lucked out in Pakistan. I sort of, you know, with my background, with my education, I managed to get that spot. So I

00:08:15.410 - 00:08:31.110

did try, but a lot of people said, you know what, it's going to be hard uh, in terms of newspapers in terms of journalism, because journalism is sort of shrinking in that sense, it's more digital, it's more online and uh, you might be interested in publishing.

00:08:31.110 - 00:08:45.450

So I thought, you know what, yeah, because you know, I met all those authors and books and that's what I'm interested in. So then I started Ryerson and I enrolled in the publishing program there, I'm always open to studying and learning. And so that's what I

00:08:45.450 - 00:09:06.910

did. I was in my second course, I remember that I was contacted by Annick Press, which is a popular children's publisher in Toronto and they're the ones who published the Robert Munsch books. And so they said we saw your articles for Dawn online, would you be

00:09:06.910 - 00:09:22.680

interested to research and write a history book for children and history book about Arab inventions. And so I thought, oh my gosh, yeah, seriously, is that even a question? And so immediately I said yes, they were like, but there's one catch and I was like, okay,

00:09:22.690 - 00:09:38.530

they said you only have like three months to do this thing. So, OK then. So this is where my master's, what I studied in South Asian Studies, the contacts, the library, I went back to the library, Robarts, after so many years and I absolutely loved

00:09:38.530 - 00:09:59.980

it. And so I researched, I wrote the book and it won an award, it was nominated for another award. Uh so the award it was nominated for was at the Arab American Museum in Michigan and the awarded one was for, it's a pretty long name. The Carolina

00:09:59.980 - 00:10:19.050

Center for the Study of Muslim Civilizations. So that gave the book an award for the research and for the work that it did. Um I know I'm butchering the name now, but at this moment that's what I remember the name of the award being. Um so

00:10:19.050 - 00:10:34.800

yeah, it was very fulfilling. It felt like this is what I got my degree for, this is what I did my graduate school for. And so it was really interesting actually, way back when, when people were saying you know journalism is hard, do publishing. So I did

00:10:34.810 - 00:10:50.070

one person I was put in touch with actually she's also from South Asia. So a friend of mine said look I know a woman who's involved in publishing she's from South Asia she might be able to help you. So I went to meet her and this

00:10:50.070 - 00:11:04.750

was before I got the offer to write even the children's book. So I went to meet her. I remember she was very nice. She said you know coffee and cookies and you know she goes you know what I'm just gonna tell you this. You, English is

00:11:04.750 - 00:11:26.260

not your first language. Your background is obviously you know varied it's different it's...So publishing is not really where you should be. You're not going to get many opportunities. So if I were you I do of course in HR or accounting or something and get

00:11:26.260 - 00:11:47.720

a job there because publishing is not a place for somebody who speaks English as their second language. And I remember leaving her place and going what? But all these awards being won--the Booker Prize and you know whatever else awards are being won by people who

00:11:47.730 - 00:12:01.300

speak English as a second language. And not that I'm saying I expect to win the Booker Prize although I wouldn't mind. But I was like something's wrong in that advice. I don't think I'm going to follow it. And literally like I said I was in my

00:12:01.300 - 00:12:17.140

second course when I got the offer to write the children's book and then once I had the second book, I then came up with the idea for uh sorry when I had done the first book, I then came up with my own idea, I thought through

00:12:17.150 - 00:12:30.650

people I worked with in Mississauga, one woman in particular said to me, you know, you're the first Muslim woman I'm actually friends with and I thought you live in Mississauga, how can you not be friends with other Muslim people. We're like, you know, so many people

00:12:30.650 - 00:12:45.450

here, South Asian and Muslim. She said, yeah, I see them on the street and I see them you know otherwise, but I don't really sit down and talk to them. So you're like the first friend I have who is South, not South Asian, she said particularly

00:12:45.450 - 00:13:03.560

Muslim. So I thought, alright, there's an idea, so I'd love to be able to get Muslim women to share their stories, their personal stories and I can put them together in a book and then rather than, you know, having a little club and bringing people together

00:13:03.940 - 00:13:19.930

once this book is published, people can read this book and really get to know Muslim women through their personal stories because they say that it's best to learn about people or meet them through their stories and personal stories that weren't really bring people together because you

00:13:19.930 - 00:13:36.550

realize you have a lot of experiences in common. Mhm. So I did that. A long story about how I got that published. So I sent it to a couple of publishers, I sent it first to the publisher who did my children's book and they said great

00:13:36.550 - 00:13:54.300

idea, we're a children's publisher, so but we could recommend you to a couple of others. So that was really nice and throughout my work, whatever I do, I always try to network, I try to, you know, get to know people, make that effort, send emails, use

00:13:54.310 - 00:14:11.780

any opportunity to talk to people. I always feel if even if nothing works out now, they know me, they've met me, you never know five years down the line. It would. So when I was looking for someone to publish my work, I reached out to this

00:14:11.780 - 00:14:30.470

lady who I had met through a volunteer work that I had done. Um and so I said, look I'm doing this. Uh so interestingly she was the wife of Haroon Siddiqui. You might be way too young for this. But Haroon Siddiqui is editor emeritus at Toronto

00:14:30.470 - 00:14:51.040

Star. The Toronto Star. [RM]: Oh wow, no. [SH]: Yeah. So for years Haroon Siddiqui was someone who was the editor of the opinions page or the page where there's the letters to the editor. No, not the letters to the editor, the opinions page. So I had mentioned

00:14:51.040 - 00:15:01.860

this book to her. So one day, completely out of the blue, I get a phone call, I pick up my phone, it's an unknown number, I normally don't pick up unknown calls. And the voice on the other side says, is this Saima, and I

00:15:01.860 - 00:15:17.050

said yes, he goes Saima, this is Haroon Siddiqui, you know, like, oh my God, telling me, he says my wife told me about your project, I think it's a great idea, you should go ahead and publish it and I'm going to connect you with the publisher.

00:15:17.940 - 00:15:32.060

[RM]: Oh wow. [SH]: And so the two years that I was struggling to get this book together, because all the time thinking who's going to publish this, people even saying to me, you know what, no one's really gonna read this book, maybe a couple of Muslim women, a

00:15:32.060 - 00:15:48.180

couple of Muslims might pick it up, but overall no one's really going to be interested, um it's not really going to sell, it's not marketable. So long story short, he connected me with the publisher published the book and the next thing I knew was before it

00:15:48.180 - 00:16:05.550

was like maybe three days after it was on the market the Globe and Mail was tweeting at me, they published a review uh the Toronto Star did a review which was a half a page big. So a huge picture of me, a huge picture of the

00:16:05.550 - 00:16:27.300

book cover and uh we had reviews from a newspaper in the UK, a newspaper in Saudi Arabia, a few uh magazines in the US and Global TV. They got in touch saying, would you like to come for an interview. So yeah, so all this happened, and

00:16:27.300 - 00:16:43.920

then it's funny because the Ontario Arts Council does an event every year, they call it the Fuel for Fire. And they were doing a session on diversity on diverse authors, authors of different backgrounds who have written books or involved in publishing. So they sent me an invite

00:16:43.920 - 00:16:59.210

that said, we would like you to moderate a session uh featuring publishers. So I said, oh, I loved so I go there, I'm on the stage and I see the woman in the audience in the audience. I see the woman who had told me eight years

00:16:59.210 - 00:17:17.370

before, don't get into publishing, English is your second language. No one's really going to be interested. And so I thought, you know what? This brought me full circle, I didn't take her advice, I thought I'm still going to do this and today I'm moderating. I have

00:17:17.370 - 00:17:33.380

two books under my belt and uh you do stuff. Even when people tell you you won't be able to do it. [RM]: That's a really interesting story. You kept on going, You didn't give up. [SH]: I did. I was like, it feels right, it has to be what

00:17:33.380 - 00:17:51.030

I do, and I did it. I was like, well we'll see what the result is, but I have to follow what I want to do. [RM]: Do you think that you've managed to connect communities together through your time as a writer through your books? [SH]: Yes, because with

00:17:51.030 - 00:18:10.960

the first book it was about, for children, it was uh directed at young readers and I had researched about inventions by Arabs in history and things that they had come up with. So um I know teachers who reached out, libraries who reached out and

00:18:10.960 - 00:18:26.750

who said you know we didn't know about this and so for them it was something new that they learned and it was really great the feeling that I was able to share this information and for a lot of people it was new information. Um one lady

00:18:26.750 - 00:18:40.320

I know came in and she bought nine copies of the book. It was a book launch that I was doing, she brought nine copies of the book, she said I have nine grandchildren, I'm going to give a copy to each of them for Christmas. So that

00:18:40.320 - 00:18:56.780

was really nice. It was really nice to know. And then with the book with the stories of Muslim women I think that had an even bigger impact because I met Christian women, I met Jewish women, I met Hindu women, women of all different backgrounds grounds who

00:18:56.780 - 00:19:18.330

said you know what I read these stories and they speak to me. So they shared a lot of because the Muslim women writing them their stories, one was going through a divorce, one was blind, one is having issues with being Black and so a lot of

00:19:18.330 - 00:19:38.190

these women came back saying this regardless of faith, a lot of women were having the same struggles, okay, one was an immigrant, so you know the trouble with settling in. So um one friend that I have, she is of Portuguese background, she's Catholic. She volunteers with

00:19:38.190 - 00:19:55.460

an organization. So again, she said for Christmas I'm going to put this in the basket of 12 women who I work. So it was good, it was good connecting people. And I have the idea my idea for the book, for the Muslim women's book was to

00:19:55.460 - 00:20:15.790

introduce people to Muslim women and I think I achieved that in a big way. [RM]: That's nice to know. Um can you think of anything from your past that was a major influence on your life today, on your decisions that you've made? [SH]: Something in my past... [RM]: Like

00:20:15.800 - 00:20:34.590

anything that motivated you to pursue this direction, publishing, journaling, writing, even libraries that you work at currently. [SH]: Absolutely. So because you also come from a South Asian background and I think a lot of South Asians and they see kids will identify with this, our parents tell us to

00:20:34.590 - 00:20:53.320

do something useful and not do English and history. So I remember when I told my parents actually this is a true story when I did English and history, my parents were like, okay, fine, so but when you do your Masters do something useful, you know, for

00:20:53.320 - 00:21:08.110

undergrad, you can do English and history. So I did English and history and then the day I came home and said so I've decided to do my Masters in South Asian Studies. The both looked at me and my father's literal question was what in the world

00:21:08.120 - 00:21:22.640

is South Asian Studies? Why can't you do an MBA. Why can't you do you know something useful? Go to law school. My mother said I'll pay for it, I'll pay for law school, please go to law school. Don't do something useless like this. And

00:21:22.640 - 00:21:34.450

I was like no but this is what I want to do and I will make a career out of this. I know if you even if you pay for it, I'm not going to enjoy law school, it doesn't speak to me. Uh, MBA

00:21:34.460 - 00:21:47.730

There's no way I can do that. You know I just don't have the aptitude, I want to do something and they both just said it's your life just so long as you can make something out of it, that's what you need to do. And I'm so

00:21:47.730 - 00:22:04.370

glad I stuck to my guns. I'm so glad that I did South Asian Studies because really that's what got me that job in Pakistan at the newspaper, that's what then got me into publishing its then what got me into the library. So it just started that

00:22:04.380 - 00:22:22.630

chain and I'm so glad like I said I pursued my passion, I did what I want to I didn't follow the desi advice of doing useful things. [RM]: No, that's really good. Yeah, personally I can also relate to that. Somebody who doesn't know what she wants

00:22:22.630 - 00:22:37.080

to do after undergrad. [SH]: Yeah, so I just did what I wanted to do what I enjoy doing and I thought you know what if I enjoy doing this, if I want to do this I'll make something out of it, I'll get a career out of

00:22:37.080 - 00:22:54.140

it. And I did. [RM]: OK from what I know about you, you've um you're involved in arts and community, volunteered as a board member of the Canadian for the Canadian Council of Muslim women. Do you want to talk about that, how your experience has been with that?

00:22:54.150 - 00:23:13.030

How do you think you've made a difference being part of this type of involvement? [SH]: So um volunteering community, that's always sort of something because I said, as I said, wherever I go, I like networking. I like meeting people or connecting community. So one organization that I

00:23:13.030 - 00:23:32.130

was connected with as a volunteer even before I was connected with the Canadian Council of Muslim women was the Council of Agencies serving South Asians. And CASA is in Toronto in Scarborough and so I began with them and as a South Asian, that's something which interested

00:23:32.130 - 00:23:50.350

me. Um, I had extremely interesting experiences, things that I would not have done. So one of the things that they asked me to do was I had to go visit a community garden, a vegetable garden that is set up and run by a group of elderly Sikh gentlemen.

00:23:51.740 - 00:24:13.050

So it's in Caledon. So I would drive there and that afternoon was amazing. I went there, there was a roomful of Sikh gentleman all retired, all in their seventies, eighties, flowing white gray beards, turbans and I walk in and they're like, oh hello, welcome. You

00:24:13.050 - 00:24:24.210

know, they have me sit down. And the first question one of them asked was, do you mind if we ask you a question? I was like sure they're like where are you from? And I said going from Pakistan and all of them were like I was

00:24:24.210 - 00:24:39.210

born in Pakistan or I went through Pakistan because a lot of them came from Lahore or they came from some part of the Punjab and then then in 47 they migrated as young men, or as children to what is now India, a lot of them were super excited

00:24:39.210 - 00:24:55.580

to know that I was someone who came from Pakistan. So it was so nice for them to be like sharing their stories, oh, I was eight when I left when I was nine or I was 10. So a lot of those stories came up. Um so

00:24:55.590 - 00:25:15.280

that made a difference and once again connecting with our South Asian backgrounds and uh just volunteering doing works there. Uh I was also facilitator, I had to produce some anti racism training. So I did it with youth. I went to a couple of schools because that's

00:25:15.280 - 00:25:35.280

where we were meeting after school and so on behalf of CASA, the Council of Agencies serving South Asians. I counseled uh young people in anti-racism workshops. And then once again I met the Sikh gentlemen in doing anti-racism workshops. The highlight of those trainings was

00:25:35.280 - 00:25:53.700

when I was getting to the part about LGBTQ or working with queer communities, I was actually thinking how am I going to say this in terms that they can understand. And just as I was starting, one of them says to me, oh

00:25:53.700 - 00:26:07.510

last year we all went to the Pride Parade and I'm like really they were like yeah yeah yeah. All of us went to the Pride Parade, we love it, we really enjoyed it and you know we have to respect how people live and we respect them

00:26:07.520 - 00:26:24.480

and I'm like thank you so much, you just made my life so much easier. And so I loved working with that group. So I did that. And so that was really my contribution I guess in terms of CASA over the years, although now I'm not working

00:26:24.480 - 00:26:39.040

with them or related with them but I still once again kept in touch with them. So whenever they need they will get in touch and say Oh we have South Asian month will you do the presentation on behalf of Pakistan. So I did that last year

00:26:39.040 - 00:26:59.130

in August on August 14 and then uh CCMW. So as I mentioned, one of my identities or what I identified closely at is being a Muslim woman in Canada. And so I registered, I got the membership, I started attending their events and then

00:26:59.130 - 00:27:14.670

I was interested. So I said I'd like to volunteer and so I uh was a volunteer for about a year or so, and that's when they said we're looking for board members, would you be interested? So for about two years I served as a board member

00:27:14.680 - 00:27:35.080

of the Toronto chapter and we did events within the community, uh even intra-community. Uh we were at the Ismaili Jamatkhana uh at the Ismaili Museum, the Center that they have next to the Museum. We did events there, we did events with other organizations. We recently

00:27:35.080 - 00:27:54.570

just did um I was the project lead for this. So the federal government is coming up with a national action plan to end gender based violence. And so they had reached out different communities in Canada for women to share their individual, their unique needs and experiences.

00:27:54.580 - 00:28:15.780

So then, on behalf of CCMW on behalf of Canadian Muslim women that CCMW represents, we got a round table, we got feedback from Muslim women. In BC Women in Montreal signed up, in Peel Region and we got that feedback those opinions together and sent them

00:28:15.780 - 00:28:37.520

off to the federal government. [RM]: Mhm. Oh yeah, okay. And from our conversation that we had a few days ago, you told me that you also have participated in programs for newcomers to Mississauga. [SH]: Uh yeah, so as part of my, the work I do with the library,

00:28:37.530 - 00:29:00.440

I am a member of the Newcomers and Inclusion Committee, which means that within the library, I am one of the people who do outreach. We get in touch with newcomer communities at schools, we go and do presentations. Um, also, there are a number of settlement organizations

00:29:00.450 - 00:29:20.020

in Mississauga in Peel Region. I do now it's being done virtually, but also person to person. Before this whole covid thing happened, we would give them library orientation as in, because I remember coming here to 18 and I had not experienced a public library. So for

00:29:20.020 - 00:29:36.710

me, I knew that it was all, oh my God, free books library, it's you know, I don't have to pay for membership. So I realized what an amazing feature the public library is for anyone who is new here. Anyone who like me in their home country

00:29:36.710 - 00:29:56.340

had not experienced a public library. And so I work with them providing that program as an introducing the library to them. We are, I also participate in a number of other programs at the library which uh are for the benefit of newcomers, say for example, English

00:29:56.340 - 00:30:16.650

conversation circle. And uh we, it's very informal, it's a casual group which gets together, we sit down and we talk about uh anything, it just gives people an opportunity to practice their English language speaking skills. It's also a place where they can come and if they

00:30:16.650 - 00:30:33.970

new a lot of people, once again, regardless of their background, if you're a newcomer, you're a newcomer and people have the opportunity to share that as well. I'm also, I lead the book club at my branch where I'm at and uh, because Mississauga does have

00:30:33.970 - 00:30:50.230

pockets of newcomers. So remember one gentleman had come in and he said, I signed up because I'm free right now, I'm looking for a job. I'm relatively new in Canada. So, but I'm at the book club, you know, I like reading books. Great. So he comes

00:30:50.230 - 00:31:03.290

in, we have this every month, the next month he comes in, he says, I've applied for a job and I have an interview coming up, so all of us were like, good luck, you know, you can do this. And then the next time that he comes

00:31:03.290 - 00:31:15.080

in, he goes, I got the job and so we're all like, yeah, and he says to me that I'm still going to keep coming, although I now have a job, but I'm going to come because (a) I love books, I want to be part of it, but

00:31:15.080 - 00:31:28.620

(b) and I loved when he said this, he goes, I feel that this group is my good luck charm when I say I got the interview that I got the job? So I'm going to keep coming because you guys are good luck for me? Of

00:31:28.620 - 00:31:44.300

course we're all like, yeah, thank you. So, uh, after that point I loved hearing that. And um, yeah, as a newcomer myself, I know how challenging it can be. So often it's happened. I'm at the library and somebody, I'm at the reference desk and some couple

00:31:44.300 - 00:31:57.390

will come in and say, hi, I'm new to Canada. You know, I'm looking, you know, to find out what's here. I just get so excited. I'm like, oh welcome, welcome to Canada. I have been in your place. This, this, this, this, this is what we offer

00:31:57.400 - 00:32:12.760

for your kids, for you, for jobs go online, this is free English conversation circle. Um, what else do we have for newcomers? We have so much for newcomers right now, it's all sort of, you know, as I'm talking to you, I'm a think think, think what

00:32:12.760 - 00:32:33.230

I'll do. Uh, we also offer Indigenous learning circle at the library. So for a lot of newcomers, they, for them learning about Indigenous um history learning and because the host of that program, we partner with an uh, elder from the Indigenous community. So for a lot

00:32:33.230 - 00:32:51.720

of newcomers, even that is a huge learning opportunity and they like to do that to be able to learn more about the country they've come to? [RM]: Okay, yeah, that's really nice. Okay, so you told me that you identify strongly as a Muslim woman. So how does

00:32:51.720 - 00:33:11.650

religion play? What role does religion play in your life? How important do you think it is for you? [SH]: Okay, so long version or the short version. Which one would you like? [RM]: Longer version. [SH]: OK then, you asked for it, you know, I'm warning you. So, so when I came

00:33:11.650 - 00:33:27.340

to Canada, I, of my own choice, I started to wear the hijab. I later learned in one of my religion classes at UofT that for a lot of young people uh I don't think you even have to be young for a lot

00:33:27.340 - 00:33:46.900

of people who come Canada. It's also a part of their asserting identity or building identity. So this was my family doesn't, my mother doesn't wear the hijab. My grandmother never wore the hijab. My sister didn't, My sister was older than I am. Uh it was something

00:33:46.900 - 00:34:08.980

that I decided that I would and it was I realized it was something which I needed to sort of build my identity or assert my identity. For me being Muslim was important. And so I joined the MSC which is the Muslim students association on campus. They,

00:34:08.980 - 00:34:24.970

I would go for Friday prayer. Um and I should add here. My mother was dead set against me wearing the hijab. She didn't talk to me for six months after wore the hijab. Oh she said you don't need to do this. You can still pray. You can

00:34:24.970 - 00:34:44.350

do whatever you want. Why are you putting this on your head? Because she was more concerned about any discrimination or um because when you're new, you want to blend in. I think that was our parents generation, they want to, you know, you're, they felt that my

00:34:44.450 - 00:34:58.560

color or my name was already an identifier and they were concerned that I needed to blend in for job opportunities for other things. And I said no, this is Canada, I'll be fine and this is what I feel and this is what I want

00:34:58.560 - 00:35:17.350

to do. And so I put on the hijab, my family was not excited about it at all. And for me going to Friday prayer or being part of the Muslim students association with something that I wanted to do. And so I did, you know school was

00:35:17.350 - 00:35:32.310

a breeze, everything was fine and then I graduated and my parents started to panic. They were like, you wear the hijab, you're gonna have such a hard time. They said it's bad enough you have a double honors in English and history, which is hard enough to

00:35:32.310 - 00:35:46.770

get a job and now you're going to wear the hijab, what are you going to do? And I said I'll be fine, I'll be fine. And so I applied. One of the first things I was like where am I going to work? English and history. So

00:35:46.770 - 00:36:01.980

I applied for a job actually on campus at the admissions office. and uh I applied and they called me for the interview and I got the shot. So I went home and I said you guys said I won't have a job, UofT

00:36:01.980 - 00:36:17.350

hired me with the hijab. And so my parents were like, oh you just got lucky. And I was like okay, whatever. So then I remember starting that job, I was admissions counselor and I'm telling my boss this that oh my parents said, you know, with the

00:36:17.350 - 00:36:30.770

hijab, you wouldn't and she just looked at me like that did not make any difference to your hiring. So I don't know what your parents were talking about. So uh so that was interesting and then I think I mentioned to you in the conversation we had before

00:36:30.770 - 00:36:53.420

this that I was actually on campus when 9-11 happened and I wore a hijab at that time. So being a hijab wearer during those weeks on that day was quite an experience. So there were a couple of incidents uh thankfully not on campus, but it felt

00:36:53.420 - 00:37:10.920

a little strange. I did ask a coworker who was very friendly with, my buddy Greg, uh which always, I don't know, once again you're too young for this, but there used to be a show on TV about a straight woman with her best friend who was gay.

00:37:10.930 - 00:37:30.670

And so that was me and Greg. Um so Greg walked me to the subway and it just felt safer with having him there and but it was on the subway line actually that I was on one morning and someone turned around and said, so what are

00:37:30.670 - 00:37:43.390

you going to bomb next? I just looked at him. I mean at first I was like, what's this guy saying? And I was like, oh, I'm sorry, excuse me. Because I honestly thought he was he was very soft spoken. He wasn't even angry looking. He was

00:37:43.390 - 00:37:59.060

wearing a very nice business suit carrying a briefcase. So it wasn't one of those crazy people, you know who you mean? So, and I just was like, excuse me, sorry, what did you ask? He goes, I'm asking who are you going to bomb next? And I

00:37:59.060 - 00:38:13.510

was like, then in response, I think he wasn't expecting the next two words that I said, that a hijabi would say these words, but I was like, you know what, no explanation, I'm not gonna offer them to you. I just said f-off. And so he

00:38:13.510 - 00:38:29.540

was more stunned than anything else because in his mind, if someone wears a hijab, she's very shy and subdued and she definitely would not use a four letter word. And so then I got off, but my leg was shaking. I remember that I was very scared,

00:38:31.120 - 00:38:51.190

But uh beyond that, I've always, like I said, Muslims been important to me. So after 10 years of wearing the hijab, one fine day, I decided that I wasn't going to wear it anymore. No major incident happened, it wasn't because I was less religious or more religious

00:38:51.200 - 00:39:04.060

or something it changed for me. One day I just said, all right, I'm not going to ear it, I'm still going to be Muslim was still fast, I was still part of the MSC and everything and I just didn't wear it. As you can imagine, my mother was

00:39:04.060 - 00:39:20.420

the happiest person on the planet. [RM]: Even 10 years later. [SH]: Yeah, 10 years later. And because I walked, you know, I'm like, you know, without it, my brother is looking at me going did you forget something? And my mother was like, shhh don't remind her, don't remind her.

00:39:20.430 - 00:39:40.110

So yeah, and so I did. And uh I mean being Muslim is just part of who I am, I might not look Muslim them anymore. But uh I started volunteering with the Canadian Council of Muslim women after not wearing the hijab. So I wrote these

00:39:40.110 - 00:40:02.740

books after not wearing hijab. So yeah, so religion is a very important part of who I am and my parents never forced religion on us. Um they always said we did our part, we've taught you what needs to be done. Now it's entirely up to you. [RM]: Yeah. Um

00:40:05.610 - 00:40:30.560

what aspects of your life have been influenced by religion on how you perceive it. [SH]: Uh huh what aspects of my life, so personal, how religion is influenced. I want to tell you this interesting story, what I feel feel bad when if when in my parents lifetime,

00:40:30.560 - 00:40:48.150

somebody comes back to them and said, oh, we saw your daughter's video at, you know, UTM or whatever and this is the story which she shared. So, um I'm single. I have yet to meet Mr Right. Um interestingly, when a lot of people in my

00:40:48.150 - 00:41:03.820

life, when I was in my twenties were, as you can imagine, desi people, South Asian Pakistani, we're getting on my case about, you know, you just have to get married, it doesn't matter before 30 you have to get married, you have to find Mr Right,

00:41:03.830 - 00:41:18.690

you have to have, you know, your 2.2 children or whatever, before you hit a certain age, you have to you have to and you're obligated by religion. I actually did my research. I already had a feeling that religion was enforcing me. And so I did my

00:41:18.690 - 00:41:38.130

research and I would turn around to people who would say that and say no, actually, no, you're wrong. I have stories from religion. I have stories from the Prophet's life from advice he gave the young women that you, even marriage is not compulsory in by religion.

00:41:38.510 - 00:41:54.000

Mhm. You marry when you meet the right person when your heart is for it, when your mind is for it. And so of course, my parents were not happy that I have done this research, but I was like, I have this. So when it feels right

00:41:54.000 - 00:42:11.980

when I meet the right person. I, but so religion in that sense, in my personal life uh, in impacting my decision of still remaining single until I meet the one when it feels right then has been very useful in a very positive way. And so I never

00:42:11.980 - 00:42:23.990

felt pressured. Like I went to the mustard, even I talked to a couple of people there and I told the imam, this is what I had, you know, read and done. And so they were like, yeah, that's fine. And you're okay. They were like, of course,

00:42:24.000 - 00:42:42.690

religion highly recommends creating a family getting married. It's a very strongly suggested sunnah. And uh your religion is considered complete when you do that. But they said by no means, is it incomplete if you do not. And I'm like, great, perfect. That's what I got. And

00:42:42.700 - 00:43:05.910

includes on my professional life. As I mentioned, researching and writing the books that I did was impacted strongly by my identity as a Muslim woman and my affinity with my faith. And uh, to this day, even at the library, I will represent where I will talk

00:43:05.910 - 00:43:19.330

about mm hmm Ramadan is coming up. So, I will say let's do a program to do with Ramadan. Or if I'm working with a co worker, I will say I know that you're fasting. I'm fasting to uh let's ask other people if we can do this

00:43:19.330 - 00:43:39.030

meeting earlier or before Iftar time or you know accordingly. So yeah, it's a very strong part of who I am. [RM]: Okay, yes, I can relate to a lot of things that you said here. Okay, so do you think that your view of religion has changed

00:43:39.040 - 00:43:58.390

since childhood to now? Uh If so, are there any reasons for this change? [SH]: I don't think it's changed to be honest. Like I said, my parents always our taught of us and then they said it's up to you. There was never any compulsion in religion

00:43:58.400 - 00:44:14.840

exactly how religion is supposed to be. I remember reading stories from the Bible, you know how you're in school and they have these books in the library. So even... I grew up in Saudi Arabia actually. So my first 12 years were in Saudi Arabia. And so

00:44:14.850 - 00:44:31.330

I went to an American school there and so the library had books on different religions. So I remember bringing home a book about stories from the Bible. Okay, so I remember reading that my parents had no issues with that. And so because they knew at the

00:44:31.330 - 00:44:50.410

same time that I was also reading books of stories from the Koran or you know, so I was very comfortable with the Muslim maybe as I grew older because I was, I became more aware of the political historical aspects of Islam as well. Uh so it

00:44:50.410 - 00:45:06.660

just grew my identity uh in that sense, of course, I'm gonna be honest. I get angry with my fellow Muslims in Canada and a lot of other countries for being silly and stupid in many ways. 9 11 was the dumbest idea ever. And a lot of

00:45:06.660 - 00:45:28.340

other ways as well, but I don't think it's really changed. It's it's just it's a very important integral part, really fundamental part and that that's staying the same. [RM]: Mm. Okay, so since you've told me that you immigrated to Canada, could you share what your process and

00:45:28.340 - 00:47:25.490

journey was like coming to Canada? [SH]: Sure, if you give me one moment, I'm just gonna take a break for one second. [RM]: It's no problem. [SH]: I'll be right back. Yeah, I am back. Okay, all right, okay, sorry, your question

00:47:25.490 - 00:47:44.330

was? [RM]: Uh so you've told me that you immigrated to Canada. Could you share how your experience was your journey coming to here? [SH]: Ah yeah, so I came with my parents, I was 18 when I first landed, we actually went to Montreal first and after just a

00:47:44.330 - 00:48:05.520

few weeks of French, my parents were like, no, no, no, no, no, we can't do this because all the government communication, everything was French. I would have been more than happy. I was actually, I got enrolled into the journalism program at Concordia University. So I with

00:48:05.520 - 00:48:20.100

A levels, I was already in and my parents were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we can't do this French thing. So we're going to Toronto and so we got on a train and we came to Toronto. And so here then I went

00:48:20.100 - 00:48:40.210

to UofT. Um as a newcomer in my experience at that age is completely different. I feel as it is compared to when you're older my, but I, I remember seeing my parents, obviously they were going through the struggles of uh, you know, finding professions,

00:48:40.210 - 00:48:57.250

getting a place to live. Uh, and what newcomers normally do do go through. Um, I was more than happy to go on campus. I was new to university life, it was an exciting time for me. This world of opportunity had opened up. But I think my

00:48:57.250 - 00:49:19.470

struggles were really uh, and I still do this today obviously 20 years later have an accent, having a Pakistani accent when you are on campus. I felt very self conscious, very self conscious. And so I remember, otherwise I'm very confident speaker. I know the English language like

00:49:19.470 - 00:49:37.680

grammar vocab wasn't an issue, but sometimes in class, I remember I would just hate to speak up because I was like, they can tell that I just came from Pakistan. So I had to get over that. Um, and eventually I did, but it was, you

00:49:37.680 - 00:49:52.440

know, it was, it was a little difficult at the beginning. I had trouble understanding slang. So I think I told you this when someone said to me, a classmate said, oh that's sick. I just think, is that a good thing or a bad thing, can we

00:49:52.440 - 00:50:16.200

Google this. So so those things I had to learn um just you know, clothes to wear. Um how how you hang out with friends even. It's different where I came from like in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, it was different and then how you hang out with

00:50:16.200 - 00:50:34.640

friends here. Um as a Muslim, there was all of a sudden all this opportunity to go to clubs and you know bars and whatever. And I remember going, I would go with my friends but because like I said, my identity with my faith is strong. I

00:50:34.640 - 00:50:45.650

would have orange juice or I would be having Pepsi and my friends would be like you can have whatever you want, you know, and I'm like yeah I know I just don't want it. So I'm there are very understanding for the ones who I said oh

00:50:45.650 - 00:51:01.400

no I can't because of you know my faith that's why, but I don't like oh yeah yeah that's fine. And so it got to the point with my friends and colleagues like there was such you were so comfortable that uh when I started working at UofT

00:51:01.400 - 00:51:14.910

I remember um he and I would often take turns okay you get coffee today or you get coffee or like coffee buddies during work, one of up would step out. And I remember that it was Ramadan I think was the first or second day

00:51:14.920 - 00:51:30.070

and then he said, hey it's your turn to go and all our co-workers turned around to him and said, it's Ramadan, she's fasting. He looked up and he goes, hey, I never asked her to go drink it herself. I said, go get it for me. So

00:51:30.070 - 00:51:46.040

I laughed and I was like, he's absolutely right. So I went and I got him a coffee because it was my turn and he goes, you don't have to have it right, You can get it. So we did that. So, uh, yeah. So, uh, I'm sorry,

00:51:46.040 - 00:52:04.050

What was your question again about newcomer? Okay, so newcomer. Yeah. So those things that I think any young person coming into the country will be able to identify with all those things that I just mentioned, uh, learning the subway system. Learning etiquette, social etiquette. Oh my

00:52:04.050 - 00:52:25.750

God, snow was new for me. My first winter was horrible. I never wore, I felt socks that were thick enough. I would wear two socks. I was like, I'm always cold. What is wrong with this country? So, gloves, socks. Yeah, it was a challenge. [RM]: Yeah. I

00:52:25.750 - 00:52:44.240

came to Canada when I was eight months as I told you. So I don't have that problem. [SH]: Yeah, when you're 18, it's completely different. And I think we're also at that age in which, you know, um, you're more self conscious. You want, you know, to make a good impression,

00:52:44.250 - 00:53:04.300

you want to make friends, You make that effort obviously. So yeah. [RM]: Mm hmm, ah, was there any main reason that you or your family decided to come to Canada specifically Region of Peel. I mean you did specify that you came from Montreal because of the French

00:53:04.300 - 00:53:25.060

but like specifically this region. [SH]: Uh yeah so we came here. So actually when we first moved um to Ontario we lived in Toronto for eight years and all of our family, friends, my uncle even so and my uncle at that time was our only relative here.

00:53:25.070 - 00:53:36.460

And so they all lived in Mississauga. So they all kept saying why do you guys live so far? Why do you live so far away, come to Peel, come to Peel come to Mississauga. And my parents said well you know the kids are going to

00:53:36.460 - 00:53:55.170

university. I was at U of T. And they said you know as soon as they're done with their universities, we'll then move so really was for it was just easier commuting and so sure enough as soon as I finished university and my brother finished university, the

00:53:55.170 - 00:54:14.880

second brother went to Windsor so he didn't really count. They were like, you know you go to rest. So he went there so then we moved to Mississauga and the pull really was that our friends and family here. [RM]: Okay. Um so how would you compare your

00:54:14.880 - 00:54:37.350

life here to that of back home, are there any similarities, differences? [SH]: Well as someone who now lives in Mississauga I can tell you that food is not a problem definitely not a problem. Uh huh doing desi stuff with your desi friends is not a problem.

00:54:37.740 - 00:55:02.300

Um oh that's not such a big difference. Uh, in terms of that and uh, so sorry, what was your question again? [RM]: Are there any similarities or differences to your life back home compared to here? [SH]: The only difference like I said, I mean I pointed out the

00:55:02.300 - 00:55:21.660

similarities for you, the only difference really is that back in Pakistan I had people who would, you know do my laundry, people who would, uh, somebody who was hired to wash my dishes or even cook my food. Yes, that doesn't happen here. Everything that I do,

00:55:21.670 - 00:55:39.830

I do have to do myself. And uh, so it's funny when I talk to my friends who are now, you know have careers have their professions in Pakistan, they're single or married, they're running their homes in Pakistan. So whenever we are together on Facetime or whatever,

00:55:39.840 - 00:55:53.760

I'm always doing something and one of my friends like you're so irritating, can you just sit down and talk to us? Why do you have to be doing something? I'm like, look, you don't have to do your laundry or do your cooking or do your cleaning.

00:55:54.440 - 00:56:09.150

I have to do all of this. So I need to multitask, this is my weekend, this is my time to talk to you. But also do my other work. So you sit there doing nothing But I need to move? So yeah, that's, that's really the only

00:56:09.150 - 00:56:28.620

difference. Otherwise religion wise, mosques and because my immediate family also, my brothers are here. Their families are here and my parents spent half the year over here. So, and for me it's about the same, especially since I can buy my clothes here. I don't have to

00:56:28.620 - 00:56:46.730

worry about what I'm going to ear for work for because I know there are places I can buy my clothes. [RM]: Yes, that's true. For me it's like cousins. I don't really have cousins here. So that's a big thing that I miss. Um, is there anything that you like

00:56:46.730 - 00:57:11.380

about Canada more than back home? [SH]: Oh gosh. Just the quality of air is better over here. Um, in general law and order is definitely better over here. Um, it's hard to say. I mean I was going to say as a single woman, I feel better opportunities, but

00:57:11.380 - 00:57:31.740

that would actually be wrong because my single women friends who were my age. They're like vice presidents of their companies by now. One is a CEO of her company. So I don't think, yeah, I think opportunities if you're smart, if you know how to do the work,

00:57:31.740 - 00:57:57.940

you can get opportunities both places. But um, yeah, I just, I think my quality, the things that I can get, I mean quality of air and I like it. I like it. My family's here. Uh, this is home for me. [RM]: Okay. Um, So you've told me about the 911

00:57:57.940 - 00:58:19.110

incident that happened in the subway. Is there any other like is there any other time that you felt any discrimination? Uh It could be either because of your ethnicity being a Pakistani, being a Muslim after coming to Canada. Has there been any other discriminations? Or or

00:58:19.110 - 00:58:37.540

is that the only one you can think of? [SH]: No, I think that was the only sort of blatant racism that I can think of. But there have been many microaggressions. Um, like in small little ways uh either for the job or with my last name which

00:58:37.540 - 00:58:56.560

identifies me as being Muslim or with my color. Um I have come across people even in Mississauga or in Toronto. I mean definitely in other cities or even when we do road trips in smaller cities along the way. But even in Mississauga I've gone to a

00:58:56.560 - 00:59:16.150

store or I've gone to an office and someone speaks to me English really loudly hoping that I will understand English, you know speak it loud enough so I'll have to be like I can understand you it's fine. So um in those small ways. Um just trying

00:59:16.150 - 00:59:32.760

to think. People...the assumption people make that if I'm a Muslim woman that I must somehow be deprived or oppressed or I don't have permission. Somebody said, oh do you have to ask your husband permission. First of all I don't have a husband and second of

00:59:32.760 - 00:59:56.550

all, I don't need anyone's permission. So uh in in those little tiny ways. Um but these will happen randomly. These will happen uh not with people I know but more so complete strangers. So microaggressions unfortunately um will happen. [RM]: Yeah. Um Have you had to make any

00:59:56.550 - 01:00:16.240

major sacrifices to fit into Canadian society, white society or no? [SH]: No, not really. Not really. Yeah. And again I realized the privilege of living in Peel. I have to be honest because like I said, as soon as I step out of GTA, the Peel

01:00:16.240 - 01:00:34.780

region, even on a road trip, you either meet really, really nice people who go out of your way. I've had this, I've had old white men come up and smile and say welcome to Canada and they'll be trying to be nice. But in my, in my mind I'm

01:00:34.780 - 01:00:55.950

going, I've been here 20 years. What do you mean? But see it's their way of being nice. They're trying to and this is like a small little town. Yeah but you might also, I do realize that my comfort is here going to a smaller town. I would

01:00:55.960 - 01:01:12.780

be a little bit uncomfortable, a little bit unsure of myself but a big urban center, Montreal, well Montreal's now, you know, making it stuff signed up with the stupid laws against wearing the hijab while you work or you know, so Quebec's doing all sorts of crazy

01:01:12.780 - 01:01:29.940

things but um yeah any urban center I'm comfortable, Peel especially when you're in Peel, you're at home, so yeah. I'm sure, I feel bad for white people. I feel like I should go and say, hey, if you're feeling, you know like you're being discriminated, let me know, I'll

01:01:29.940 - 01:01:51.220

help you. [RM]: Um, is there any ideal that you look up to? Anybody who's influenced some of your decisions in life helped you get where you are today? [SH]: Oh yeah, I mean there's no way I could be where I am today without people who have, you know,

01:01:51.230 - 01:02:09.420

given me that sort of arm to help me up. Even just just that support, just that like I said, uh Haroon Siddiqui was somebody who helped me get my second book published for my first book. Um just people you meet along the way, the director of

01:02:09.420 - 01:02:25.940

the program, I don't know if she still is, but Meg Taylor was the director of the publishing program at Ryerson. And so I had reached out where she came to class just to observe, I think she did that for all her courses, She came to observe

01:02:25.940 - 01:02:42.230

actually the instructor, I think for that particular course. But then I stepped up and I chatted with her and she immediately connected with me and uh, she would then send me, here's an opportunity, Would you be interested in this because she saw that I was interested

01:02:42.700 - 01:03:00.810

and then there was a position, an internship at the Writer's Trust of Canada. So she told me about it. I applied for it and she recommended me for it and I got that, you know, short internship which for me was great learning experience. So at the

01:03:00.810 - 01:03:22.470

library um is actually a South...two South Asian women have stood out and one white woman. The South Asian one is from Pakistan like I am from Islamabad. The other one is uh a Bangladeshi Christian woman. So she's Catholic, she's from Bangladesh originally and she's

01:03:22.470 - 01:03:45.810

been one of my greatest supporters. But my absolute greatest supporter is somebody who retired uh three days ago from the library. She is once again Catholic, she is originally from, her family is from gosh, I hope I don't get this wrong from she's gonna kill me

01:03:45.810 - 01:04:04.910

if I get this wrong, don't you want to tell me? Um from an Eastern European country? I want to say Poland. Yeah, no Ukraine. She's from the Ukraine. And so she grew up in Saskatchewan and then she moved here to work at the library many, many

01:04:04.910 - 01:04:20.840

years ago. And when I first started to volunteer at Mississauga Library when I was, had done my first book, I was interested, I started volunteering. She met me while I was a volunteer and she said why aren't you applying to work at the library like oh you

01:04:20.840 - 01:04:36.390

can work at the library, look. And she goes, yeah. And so she said apply. So I did and she helped me to get, you know the first position, then she's always been there to support me advise me and now I'm a library supervisor, it took me

01:04:36.390 - 01:04:55.920

five years to get there from starting off as a page. But it was thanks to her that I'm here. So really what I am today, it's been a case of really lovely people I met along the way. [RM]: That's nice. Have you had any life changing moments?

01:04:58.090 - 01:05:11.160

Like you know that one moment where you're like okay my life is different now. [SH]: Life is different now. Hmmmm, that's a good point. Uh well when Marion said would you like to work for, you should work for the library I think was one such moment because

01:05:11.160 - 01:05:23.220

I was like, what, people apply to work here, I don't know what I was thinking, even though I had written a book, I didn't know what the process was to work at a library. So when she said why aren't you applying? You know, I'm like how do

01:05:23.220 - 01:05:42.630

you do that? Really, you do that. And so that really is what got me working at the library. Marian and Amanda, uh Amanda is the woman from Bangladesh where I told you about Marion is the one from the Ukraine originally and I say originally they both

01:05:42.640 - 01:05:57.470

grew up here. So, but their ethnic backgrounds are, I just wanted to point out, so they were the ones who said go to library school now and I'm like no, I'm too old. I I did Masters like years ago, they were like you never you're never

01:05:57.470 - 01:06:15.320

to go to library school. So thanks to them bullying me. Plus also my friend who is from Pakistan from Islamabad but she also said she's a librarian as well and they said go enroll, it's only a year and a half of your life do it and

01:06:15.330 - 01:06:35.310

it'll be the best thing you do. So after 17 years of doing my first masters, I applied and I got in and I drove to Western once a week to do the library, the library program there. Uh it was hard because obviously classrooms have changed

01:06:35.320 - 01:06:53.290

the last time I was at university, we typed our papers on the professor's desk and that's how we submitted them. Now we just type them up, we email them, we put them in, I don't know, blackboard or owl depending on the university you're at, nothing is

01:06:53.290 - 01:07:11.470

printed, nothing is on paper. [RM]: Not anymore. [SH]: No. And so for me that was a big learning curve. And so thanks to the people I was in class with, they really helped me out. And because this technology was all new for me, [RM]: Yeah. Um, what do you

01:07:11.470 - 01:07:36.760

find to be the greatest accomplishment of your life? [SH]: The greatness accomplishment of my life? I think being another, being an author because growing up, I remember saying or imagining like, you know how kids is a role player or the day dream that I'm going to be something

01:07:36.770 - 01:07:50.940

I used to be like, I'm going to write a book, I'm going to be an author you know, everyone was like yeah, yeah, whatever and so having written those two books now when I turned back I like I did it, I did it, I used to

01:07:50.940 - 01:08:05.050

pretend to write a book, you know how kids play games and they're like, I'm pretending to be this, I used to pretend to write a book, I'm an author and writing a book, so I did that, so for me, being an author was I think my

01:08:05.050 - 01:08:31.480

greatest accomplishment. [RM]: Okay, so what is one piece of advice you'd give yourself in your youth knowing what, you know now? So say what advice would you give? Somebody like me? [SH]: Let's say calm down. Yeah, everything you want, will come to you. It will. I mean you

01:08:31.480 - 01:08:47.890

obviously have to work hard, you can't just sit there, you know, saying, okay, come to me, but it will come to you um and it's true, I think as part of our faith, we also as Muslims believe this, that what is meant for you, will come to you

01:08:48.570 - 01:09:08.340

and what isn't meant for you, no matter how hard you try, you won't get it. So there were jobs that I applied for even recently, like 5-6 years ago before working at the library I really, really, really wanted, I got the first interview, I

01:09:08.340 - 01:09:20.750

got the second interview, I then had to go for the third interview and somehow it didn't work out. And I thought, oh my God this is like the worst day this was meant to be and it didn't happen. I don't know what happened. And now I

01:09:20.750 - 01:09:37.300

can safely say I'm so glad it didn't happen because I was meant to go on a different path. And when you're on your right path, those doors will open for you. And something which is not meant for you, those doors, no matter how much you

01:09:37.300 - 01:09:57.770

knock on them on how much you try them, they just won't open. And so also I think so important. Now I can look back and realize, anything I did--a volunteer thing, something which just happened by chance, something that I worked at, something that I

01:09:57.770 - 01:10:12.830

applied for no matter how big or how small. It was all connected. The job at U of T I told you about the very first one I got when my parents said with a job, you're not gonna get a job. When I told my boss, years

01:10:12.830 - 01:10:32.440

later, she obviously said that your hijab had nothing to do with it. But I said, so what did made you, what made me stand out? She said that you had volunteered in a, it was a group. I was like a teacher's assistant. I had nothing

01:10:32.440 - 01:10:50.100

to do over the summer. So for one month I was it was an English as a Second Language class for newcomers. So I did barely one month of volunteering with the teacher, barely one month. But it was on my resume for when I applied to do that

01:10:50.100 - 01:11:08.190

job at U of T. She said, every application I got was a fresh graduate. You were also straight out of school, a fresh graduate. But you had volunteered one month or whatever time it was in an E. S. L. Class. So she goes that stood out, you

01:11:08.190 - 01:11:23.210

were different. I wanted to work with somebody who had worked with people for whom English was a second language. So I had just done that because I had nothing else to do with my time. I didn't think about, you know, doing that and I thought, hey,

01:11:23.210 - 01:11:37.880

good experience, I'll do this. But that stood out. That got me the job at U of T. When I was at U of T, I thought, hey tuition is free, I'm gonna do my Masters. So I didn't have to pay for my Masters the first one. So because

01:11:37.880 - 01:11:53.750

I did the Masters, I got the job at Dawn. Because I got the job at Dawn, I went to publishing school, so it can be a small thing, but when you look back, it's all interconnected. So do everything you enjoy, follow your dream. No matter how big or how small

01:11:53.750 - 01:12:10.090

it's all linked. [RM]: Everything's gonna be worth it at the end. [SH]: But always, always follow your heart. People will tell you, you're being stupid, you're not being smart. Um Like I said, my friends were the CEOs and the vice president of the company. They always said

01:12:10.100 - 01:12:28.430

no Saima, you're like this not million dollar making artists. You like to be creative. You're writing books, you're not very rich. No, I think it's okay. I'm enjoying this. [RM]: At least I'm doing what I love. [SH]: Exactly. [RM]: Okay. So lastly, if you had to put, uh to name

01:12:28.430 - 01:12:46.720

in one word, the chapter of your life, like this chapter that you're currently in, how would you define it? [SH]: In one word? [RM]: It could be two or three if you want. [ [SH]: Oh, good God. How would I define the chapter? I don't think I'm done still. I

01:12:46.720 - 01:13:03.900

think I'm hopefully close to being where I want to be or what I want to achieve. But I still say we're work in progress in progress in progress. Yeah. And I think we stay that way all our lives to be honest. [RM]: Yeah, I think so. If

01:13:03.900 - 01:13:16.660

you reach a certain goal, you want to go higher. [SH]: Exactly. Exactly. So I'm never going to say this is it? I've reached my limit. I'll reach work wise where I want to do and I'll be like, um, I want to do something more right a third

01:13:17.250 - 01:13:39.940

try another career. So who knows. [RM]: Okay. Yeah, that's all the questions that I had for you. Is there anything else you would like to add or mm hmm. [SH]: Um talked about my work influences identities. No, I think I'm good. Good. Okay. I think I'm good.

01:13:39.950 - 01:13:56.430

And I love this opportunity. So I did, I think I mentioned you, an oral history project when I was at university. I was doing a religion course actually world religions. And so I interviewed a family friend about his experiences of faith because he...It

01:13:56.430 - 01:14:14.490

was funny. He continued to identify as Muslim, but he wasn't practicing anymore. His wife was a practicing Catholic. His children were brought up Catholic and but he still insisted, I'm Muslim. And I'd be like, you don't really do anything Muslim. He goes, no, I'm Muslim. And

01:14:14.490 - 01:14:32.640

I was like, okay, fine. So that's why I wanted to interview him. He's unfortunately passed away since. But so when I was told by someone that they were looking for subjects for this project, I think full circle I'm going to be the subject now with somebody

01:14:32.640 - 01:14:55.250

else's oral history project for a South Asian Studies students. [RM]: I'm really glad that you took the opportunity. I really enjoyed interviewing you. [SH]: Thank you. Thank you very much. [RM]: I would like to thank you for taking this opportunity in the South Asian Peel Project. And if yeah,

01:14:55.840 - 01:15:10.900

[SH]: You're very welcome. It's been my pleasure. Really. Thank you so much, Rijja I really enjoyed this and I wish you the best of luck. [RM]: Thank you. Same to you. I hope you reach your final goals that you want to in life. [SH]: I think my goalpost keeps moving.

01:15:10.910 - 01:15:25.060

But honestly, even besides this. If you, if you would ever like to reach out for anything, please feel free. [RM]: Definitely. I will. Thank you so much, once again. [SH]: You're welcome. Take care. Have a great evening. [RM]: You too. Bye.