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[Odalis Mairena Garcia]: It's February 28th, 2020 and I'm here with Mrs Robinson. Thank you so much for being here today and for participating in this amazing project. So today, I'll ask you a couple of questions. I want to hear your story. If at any point you feel

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uncomfortable and you would not like to answer that question, please feel free to do so. You can let me know where we can just skip it. And if you need to take breaks or you need something we can stop at any time. So I'd like to

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start by hearing a little bit about yourself. Can you tell me your name and your pronouns? [Kayleigh Robinson]: Okay. My name is Kayleigh Robinson. I go by she her mostly in the real world. I have she/they on my Twitter account. Um, gender is weird. [OMG]: Um, where were

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you born and where did you grow up? [KR]: Um, I was born in Guelph, Ontario, and I grew up in Guelph, Ontario. I'm very boring that way. Lived in the same house for like until I moved out to go to university. Um, yeah, I live with my parents,

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lived with my parents, still live with my parents in the summer. [OMG]: And where are your parents from? [KR]: Um, my dad is from Saint Jean, Quebec. He moved to Guelph when he was 16. Um, my mom is from Waterdown, Ontario. She moved to Guelph for university,

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and my parents met at the University of Guelph and they just didn't leave after that and decided it would be a good place to raise a family. As an only child, though, they didn't really have a big family. Just me. [OMG]: What did your parents major in? [KR]: Um, both

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of my parents are science majors, which means they don't understand why I like history, but they're very supportive. Um, my dad does computer science. Um, my mom was a stay at home mom, but she majored in food sciences, and she used to work at restaurants and

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things like that. [OMG]: And while you were growing up, did you speak other languages other than English? No. [KR]: Even though my dad's from Quebec, no one in my family except for my aunt can actually speak French. Like even his parents just didn't speak French. [OMG]: How were

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you raised in any a specific faith community? [KR]: Uh, both of my, both parents of my grandparent's were quite religious, Catholic, Christian, Christian. I don't know the difference between Catholic and Christian, which goes to show just how much I was raised with religion. But both of my parents

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parents were very religious, my parents less so probably because of that. My mom definitely didn't really vibe with the whole religion thing because the church that my grandparents used to be a part of was the Dutch Reform or something like that. And they're very, uh,

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not great when it comes to women and queer people. Um, my dad's parents were just chiller about it, I guess, um. But yeah, I went. I was baptized. I was baptized. I don't know what that means, but I was baptized and I've been to like church

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for, like, Christmas. Sometimes we used to go to Christmas Eve mass with my dad's parents. [OMG]: Do you know how old you were when you were baptized? [KR]: Oh, I was a baby. It was like a baby when I was baptized. It wasn't, it wasn't a conscious baptizing it

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was Oh, we're gonna dunk our kid in some water kind of baptizing, so yeah, but I didn't really have a lot of...I had, like my grand parents would buy me like kids Bible books, and I would read them a lot for some reason. But nothing

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ever stuck so I wouldn't describe myself is religious. I think my parents, my mom probably wouldn't either. My dad, I think, is kind of like not organized religion, but, like spiritual, I guess. [OMG]: Can you explain what do you mean by spiritual? [KR]: Um, I think he believes

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that there's like a higher power in some form, but he doesn't like, none of us ever really do anything. He's just kind of because I definitely personally would identify. It's a weird way to say that I would say that I was probably an atheist where my

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dad would probably fall more under the agnostic like there is not agnostic. I don't know the term, but like there is something, it's just probably not the way that, like we've organized our religion, probably isn't the way that it actually happened kind of thing. You know,

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I don't think that it's like, Oh bullshit, but um...I'm sorry, I shouldn't swear, um, but like I've never put much thought into it, maybe that's the issue, but like, not really, but I respect people who do think that? I think that there's a lot of power behind believing

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in other things like that. But personally, maybe, maybe not, may be I fall more towards agnostic than atheist, as I'm saying this, but like...[OMG]: And how do you describe yourself in terms of your race, ethnicity, um. [KR]: Extremely white. Um, yeah. My dad's side of

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the family has been in Quebec for a while. My grandfather was really into the whole ancestry tracing thing. My grandfather did like the whole tracing your family back, saying, My dad's side of the family is very, very vaguely Irish, like we came over from there at

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some point, but, like were French Canadian. More than that, because that's where they grew up, even though we don't speak French. They grew up in the French...Like both of my grandparent's grew up in Quebec, and neither of them could speak French. Um, my mom's parents,

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on the other hand, immigrated from Holland after the Second World War because it was not great over there after the Second World War, because it was Holland. So they moved here in the early fifties, met while they were over here. They were both younger when

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they left. My dad's parents are very old. My dad was the like accident baby, where they had him when they were 40. My mom's parents a little younger so they...like my dad's father fought in....he was a navigator in World War Two. Didn't really fight,

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but he was like, part of the Air Force. Um, I don't know where I was going with that, but yeah, I'm just really white, Dutch and Irish. [OMG]: Do you feel like you have any connections to that Dutch part of your ancestry? [KR]: Yes, because because my

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grand parents were are so closely related to that like they moved like my...technically...I don't use this term for myself because they came from Holland but technically I'm a second generation, second generation immigrant. None of us use that term, but my mom did grow up.

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I can't speak Dutch. My mom can't speak Dutch, so it's kind of the whole thing back in the fifties, moving from Holland and then just completely, um, assimilating into Canadian culture and not really teaching your kids, um, the language, but they're still pretty like culturally I

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ate a lot of Dutch food whenever I went there. Pannekoeken. Um, boterkoek, which are just sweets. They just fed me sweets, Dutch sweets. Um, so I would say both my grandparents are still really like, Yeah, we're Dutch. We didn't teach our kids this, but

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we're still like Dutch. So we're gonna let our children and our grandchildren know that and keep with some of the traditions. [OMG]: Uh, and how do you currently describe, describe your sexuality, identity or your gender identity? [KR]: As I said earlier. Gender's weird. Um, sexuality is a little

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easier for me. I identify as bisexual. So, um, men, women, non binary, trans. That whole identity would be something that I would be comfortable having someone that would be having have be comfortable having a relationship with. That was a sentence. So sexual. I've been pretty just

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solid in what my sexuality is for a while since, like, high school. Earlier than that. Yeah, probably about, like, grade eight, grade nine. Being comfortable with being like, Yeah, I like men. I like women. I like people who aren't on that spectrum either. Gender gender is

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a little weird. Um, I wouldn't say that I am like, dysphoric fork towards being a woman. But I don't really identify with being a woman either. So it's kind of just like I'm kind of that's something that I'm still working through because it's something that I

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kind of just I started thinking about earlier this year. So, like I'm comfortable with she/her pronouns and I feel more comfortable telling people that I'm comfortable with those pronouns. But I would also probably be comfortable with people referring to me with, like they/them. Either

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non binary pronouns such as Like that? [OMG]: Can I ask if if that's your preference preference when it comes to pronouns, why do you have that...you tend to use the pronouns she/her instead of really, what makes you comfortable? [KR]: Probably cause it's easier? You could

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ask No. Yeah, it's fine, probably because it's easier I...because I'm still kind of like, like do I want to signify myself as someone at who is not like on the gender spectrum, that isn't straight male, straight female kind of thing where it's, like, a

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lot to have to explain to someone, especially when you're not really sure yourself. So like, there are a few people that I have been like, Oh, yeah, like this, this and this. But most of the time I'm just like, like in class when we do

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pronoun exercises. I probably could have done it in this class if I hadn't have dropped out. But like when we did it in the African history class, it's like, Do I want to go through all this and have someone asked me, Um, so because I live

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on residence, we did, Um I can't think of the word that I wanted to use, but we did like getting to know each other exercises at the beginning with all the people in the like area that I live in. Um and we're...my don had asked

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like, Oh, what is everyone's pronouns? And I was like, I'm just again, not really gonna get into it, but so I was like, Oh, she/her. And then we're kind of mingled after that. And then we went to join another group, and this guy came up

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to me and he was like, I want, uh, what pronouns do you go by? And I was like, Oh, she/her and he was like, Oh, well, I looked at you and I thought you'd be the most likely one to have um, like they/them pronouns. And I

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was like, What does that mean? So it's automatically just like, Well, now I don't even feel comfortable. I don't feel comfortable saying that to you now because you have this idea that because of the way that I present myself, I'm automatically, uh, non binary, which yeah...

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[OMG]: Did that bother you personally or it was it just uncomfortable? [KR]: It wasn't like, I wasn't offended that he assumed that I was non binary, because again, I'm leaning towards thinking that I probably am, But like, it was just that. Like, I look the way I look and I don't, like,

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present myself in any way because of my gender expression. Like I present myself in the way that I'm comfortable, which probably does fit in my gender expression. But it's not something that I like actively think about. It was just really weird and very uncomfortable to hear this

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guy come up to me and be like, Oh, yeah, you look like you're non binary, which was just weird. Like that kind of just made me very uncomfortable with, Like, what kind of like perceptions do you have on people? [OMG]: Um, it's just another, more regular

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question, because I should have asked you this earlier, but how old are you? [KR]: I am 23 years old. As of January 18. I forgot how old I was last year and decided to tell someone that I was 23 already. And I'm not. I just turned 23. [OMG]: Happy late

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birthday. [KR]: Thank you. [OMG]: So you have told me that you have been living on campus for four years now? [KR]: Yes. [OMG]: And so I'm assuming you're in your fourth year now, can you tell me a little bit about your educational background? [KR]: Okay. Well, I did all of my pre secondary.

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I don't know what it's called. I went to high school in Guelph. And then once I graduated, we had the option to take, like, a second year or a year off. And I was like, I'm not taking another year of high school because we could do a

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like a victory lap. I was like, I'm not doing that shit. I don't want to stay in high school for any longer than I have to. So I went to college for a year. I went to Sheridan College in Oakville, um, for art fundamentals because I

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wanted to be an illustrator. And as you could see, that didn't go. Um, and then I decided about halfway through that year that I didn't want to do illustration because I wanted to have, like, a more academic focus on things and I want to do, like

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at that time art history. So I went from Sheridan art fundamentals into the art and art history program here at UTM. I did that for...Did that for a semester. I am not good at making decisions. I did that for a semester. And then second

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semester I was in drawing and painting, and I was like, I don't wanna be doing this anymore because it was very studio heavy. And I was like, uuuuhhh. So I switched into the history as my major when we had to do our post thing, I was like,

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I'm gonna do a history Major, Art history Minor and an English major which was demoted to a minor very quickly when I realized just how much reading English and History have together. Um, so now, graduating, hopefully soon. I do have a history major with a minor

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in English and art history. [OMG]: And what drove you to major in history particularly? [KR]: I think it's probably my high school experience, which sounds like bullshit, because high school of history is terrible. Um, but my school was really good. We had like, my high school

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was really good. We had a pretty diverse after you got, like, the basic like here's Canadian history since confederation kind of shit that you do in Grade 10. We had, like, a lot of we had, like a world history class. We had an Indigenous studies class,

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which was, as I'm learning as I go to university, rare for high schools. We had a bunch of, like, ancient history classes. So and the history teachers were always the best teachers at my school. So it's kind of that. And then I did also really like

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art when I was in high school. So that was kind of like why I was like, Oh, I should try to do this. Um, And then once I got into UTM. And I was like, Oh, I really like art history, but we're not doing

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the kind of history that I like. So I was like, I think I just have to suck it up and do history. [OMG]: When it comes to art history. What is it that they, that you liked and the program did not offer? [KR]: I think. And I only learned

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this term recently. I'm interested in, like, the kind of, like, intellectual history side of things. So, having like the like, the historiography and, like, why people think like this and, like, why we're doing this? Um, and art history didn't really have that. It was more like

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these are these paintings. This is what's going on when these paintings were happening, it didn't quite go as far as I wanted it to into the like, why's of things. But happy now. [OMG]: That's good. Now I can ask you a question. Forgive me if I miss asked you this

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question, but when did you and I quote "came out"? [KR]: Um, I feel like I come out to my mom like once every four years. I'm out to both of my parents, both...None, none of my extended family. I'm not touching on that unless I absolutely have

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to. So if I do end up marrying a man and I'm straight. I'm straight. I'm out about my sexuality towards my parents. I again the gender things a pretty new thing that I'm thinking about. So I'm not really, I haven't talked to them about that yet. I'm not

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quite sure how they'd take it. I don't think they'd outright be like, uh, like, kick me out or anything, but from conversations that how did them about gender, like specifically, non-binary gender. It's like they don't get it. And I don't really want to have to have

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the whole conversation about it without being, like, completely sure. So I'm not out that way. But as I was also saying, I'm not out to any of my extended family and again, to quote the earlier view, the earlier part of this. If I marry a man,

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I am straight. I'm not touching on that with my extended family because I don't think that they would be very supportive. [OMG]: Can you tell me a little more about that? Why would you think they were, they would not be supportive? I mean, even if you met

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marry a man, why would you just just simply call it straight if it's more complex to you? [KR]: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, I think all my dad's I'm gonna talk with my dad's side first because it's easier. I think on my dad's side. My grandfather died a few years

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ago, so it would just be my grandmother. I I think I'm technically out to my aunt on my dad's side. I made a joke about bringing my aunt lives in Florida for half the year. Florida is full of Trump supporters. She lives in a resort for like

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half the year. I I don't understand why senior citizens seem to think, Oh, it's cold. We're gonna live in Florida for half the year now, so she's like the snowbird kind of thing, But she has, like a timeshare at a resort. It's weird. I don't understand it.

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I would never do it. But I get to go and see her in Florida over reading weeks. So it's warm. Um, but like, of course, everyone around there is very conservative because it's a very like, richer, kind of like thing. So I made a joke about

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being like, Oh, I'll just like bring a girlfriend or something and she'll be my girlfriend. Um, so I don't know if I came out to her, if she understood that. But like I feel comfortable around her, I would feel comfortable around her. My dad's brother, I don't know. He's

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like, extremely religious, like. Again. I know nothing about religion because of the way I was raised, but he is extremely religious. So I don't know if I would be comfortable coming out to him because I don't know. It's about, like, the reaction and how I

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don't wanna, like, start shit in my family. So it's like more. I guess for me, I'm really, really private in general. So, like, when it comes to it, if I'm like forced to do it, Yeah. Except for with my parents. I was like, I should probably just

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tell my mom. I came out to my mom first, and then I think she told my dad and then he was like, Are you? And I was like, Yes, so it was chil on that thing on that side. But my mom's side of the family...So, am I allowed to

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talk about the fact that we were talking about this off camera. So off camera, um, just the, the white immigrant family with religion and just queerness in general. Again, I think because of the church they went to when they first came here, which was from

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what my mom told me, a terrible church, like she left Waterdown to move, to Guelph, to go to school and stopped going to church because she was like, I don't wanna do this. Her church had a family come to Guelph, follow her to Guelph on

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Sunday and be like, oh, come to church with us. And they would do it every Sunday for, like, the first semester of her university trying to get her to go to church with them because they didn't want her to stop going to church. Um, so

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my grand parents aren't part of that church anymore, so that's better. They've definitely become more accepting, I think definitely with with me, because I'm there. Um, I think because, like within my family, me, like my parents and I are by far the more liberal group. I

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would say the rest of at least on my mom's side of my...I've not had political conversations with my dad's, but at least on my mom's side, like my aunts and uncles on that side are definitely more conservative. Uh, Capital C Conservative kind of conservative, and my

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grandparents were definitely conservative. They hate Trudeau for different reasons than I dislike Trudeau. They're like, Oh, he's too liberal kind of thing which is like, uh, but like my fam, like my family is definitely far more like left leaning and liberal and open to things,

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whereas my grand parents aren't. But they're better because probably because my mom and I are like, No, like you can't say shit like that. So they're better on a lot of things, not quite sure they're better on the whole queer thing. My grandmother is still very

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much like, Well, why do they have pride? Why do they need to have pride? Why do they need to do it like have a thing for it? It's so much better for them now. It's just like, is it? So I never get into those conversations with

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them because I don't wanna out myself to them because I definitely because of the things that they've said in that vein, it's like I just like I don't like the whole like I don't mind. I don't mind gay people, but I don't want to see it.

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I don't know why they have to, like, flaunt their gayness. And it's just like I honestly don't know how they would react if I brought home a woman, let alone someone who's like non binary or trans and it's just like it, it's something that I know that

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if I did bring home someone, I would have to, like, do it first. Like I would not subject my partner to just going in blind, but also just for the sake of my mental well being. And like my family dynamic in general, I really don't

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feel comfortable coming out to them at all because of that whole, like they're very just traditional. It's also it's just... [OMG]: Do you think it's a cultural thing at this from your either side actually? [KR]: I think well... [OMG]: Or do you think it's just them being

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like that? [KR]: I think it's well, partially because they have, as like, I don't know how the word this, um, they're just Yeah, I think it's like a because they came here and they're very like I don't like I can't say, Oh, Holland's really traditional because I

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don't think it is. But they came here and they were like expected to act a certain way. They were expected to get married. They were expected to like conform to Canadian society. They were expected to conform to, like the religion that they were in. I think

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a lot of it for them is religion, and a lot of it was the fact that they were part of the Dutch Reformed Church. So, like, I would not say that like a blanket statement, all religion is terrible towards queer people because I don't agree with

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that. But I definitely think that the church that they grew up with over here was a large part. I'm saying Dutch Reform, I could be wrong but like I definitely think the church that they grew up with here was a large part of that just from

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what my mom told me about the congregation, it was very much like women couldn't hold positions of power in the congregation. I don't don't know the terms but like they couldn't lead a sermon. They couldn't do anything like that. So it was like a extremely traditional

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church and I think a lot of that wore off on them when they were kids and then they stayed with it until, like I want to say, maybe like, less than 10 years ago was when they actually switched to a different church that is by far

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more accepting from what they have talked about. But again, it's their view of accepting. So I'm not quite sure. And they are, like, willing to, like learn. But it's like, uhh. [OMG]: It's really nice to see though that that hasn't affect that much the way you express

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to other people. That's again. Thank you so much for being here today. Um, so I'd like to know a little bit more about your experience as a queer person here at UTM. So thankfully, thank you for sharing that insightful part about your family.

00:26:29.740 - 00:26:50.390

So thank you so much. Do you think that at the University of Toronto at Mississauga, how would you describe the environment as a queer person when it comes to that? [KR]: I...interesting? I'm gonna put interesting. When I was still in art and art history, I had,

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like a friend who is also queer, and we decided to go to the like queer...it wasn't a dance, but like the LGBT... mhm....LGBTQ+ club. I don't actually know what they call themselves on the St. George campus. They were doing like a 18

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plus little dance pub thing so we decided to go there, which was I'm, I think it's, I don't know how much of it is just the culture or how much of it is just me being a very introverted, anxious, quiet person. I don't...I find that

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like when I do things I'd prefer to do like smaller groups, smaller things like coffee. Not get a drink with a bunch of very loud people. So we went to that and it was fun, like we went to that. I mean, you had some alcohol,

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there was drag queens that came to perform, and it was like it was fun. But I find that a lot of the stuff, at least for me. I'm also not very outgoing, so I know that they do have the queer orientation every year, which if I

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was a better person, I would go to that. The. So I find it more that I just attract other queer people, that kind of thing, where you just like all of your friends end up being queer people as well. Um, but we went to that thing in

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St. George in first year um, and then second year, we were also they did something at the Blind Duck on campus here, um, and she, she lives in Toronto. So she came all the way from Toronto to come to this pub thing, and we went and

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they hadn't even set up yet. So we just ended up going to my house and watching movies for the night instead of doing this like Queer Pub thing. Um, I I don't know if that's just me. I find the campus a little conservative. Maybe because of, just

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like and disjointed. Maybe just because it's in Mississauga and we're in, like, the rich area of Mississauga. And I'm kind of just like I don't really feel like there's a lot of queer stuff around me, which again, it could just be the fact that I am

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very like I feel more comfortable doing things online than I do like in real life. Um like, at my job, when I was talking to my supervisor, we were like looking over this thing that the Museums of Mississauga...I don't know if I'm allowed to say

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this, probably. We're looking at this thing that museums of Mississauga did, um called the story of M that was like looking at, um, programs and lacking things in Mississauga that the Museum could help with. And they had, like, this thing at the end that had different

00:29:40.160 - 00:29:58.280

groups. And the only queer groups they really had were like in Toronto, like in Toronto proper and not in Mississauga. So I feel like just the way that especially how...not cut off the university is. But like it's not like there's nothing within walking distance, really,

00:29:58.290 - 00:30:20.200

for students to congregate at other than the pub. But like, it's very like, uuuuuh, when it comes to like actually going out and meeting people. [OMG]: In terms, of course, do you think, are any queer, uh, courses if you were, besides this course. [KR]: I know that they're my

00:30:20.200 - 00:30:40.000

friend last semester took the queer writing course. Um, I haven't really taken...again in the history other than this one. There isn't really one that I can think of off the top of my head. Um, other than this one. [OMG]: Do you, are you, were you familiar

00:30:40.000 - 00:31:01.850

or do you know any professor that is quote "out"? [KR]: Um, not before this class. Again I think it's really like, yeah, no other than Brown saying that in the beginning of first week for this class. And are you part of any student groups and or activities

00:31:02.740 - 00:31:29.840

either online or...physically? [KR]: Not really. I feel like it. I get yeah, I feel like the people that I surround myself with online tend to be queer creators. And I do. I do know [indistinguishable] someone that I...Yeah, I think it's just I am

00:31:29.840 - 00:31:48.730

an isolated person in general, so I don't again, I don't know how much of the issue is actually the kind of spaces that are offered to me or if it's just me in general. [OMG]: Do you think the university has not really promoted some of this online support

00:31:48.730 - 00:32:05.550

for queer people, if there were? [KR]: I haven't really heard of much, so yeah, I do. I think the queer orientation thing is really good. I think I should have probably done more of it when I was younger. But since I'm not coming back next year, I

00:32:05.550 - 00:32:19.760

can't do it. I think that that and I think getting...I feel like I got a card for that when I moved into residence saying that there was a queer orientation and I think that that's really good, I think that. But I also think that there's

00:32:19.760 - 00:32:43.990

an issue with being a commuter school and getting, um, engagement in things like this. I feel like a lot of the stuff the student union does gets more like other things the student union does gets more traffic because of how it's set up. [OMG]: And talking

00:32:43.990 - 00:33:06.410

a little bit about that online aspect of your life and queerness, um, tell me what social medias are you currently using? [KR]: Currently, I think the thing that I use the most is Twitter, as I was, as I was coming into being a queer person, like acknowledging

00:33:06.410 - 00:33:27.150

that I was a queer person I would say it was Tumblr, which might have done things to me, but I use Twitter a lot. I think Twitter is my most used social... Twitter and like fan fiction sites, Um, but I think Twitter would be where I

00:33:27.160 - 00:33:46.940

see and interact with people the most. My like the my best friend, who I made in first year doesn't come to the school anymore because she switched schools. Um, she was queer. She's a lesbian as well, so I really only contact her over social media: Twitter,

00:33:46.950 - 00:34:05.720

Facebook Messenger. No one texts anymore. [OMG]: And so you have Instagram Facebook. [KR]: I have. I think I have 95% of the, like social media things. Twitter, Tum... I still kind of use Tumblr. Not as much. I feel like it kind of died. Um, like the big

00:34:05.720 - 00:34:23.180

issue for me with, like, online spaces, especially....Have you, do you use? Have you ever used Tumblr. [OMG]: No. [KR]: Okay, so it was like when I was in high school, it was like the big, big thing. It's like a blogging platform. And you like you blog's things

00:34:23.180 - 00:34:38.160

from other people and you curate your blogged. And it was for me, at least at that point in time, it was where I learned a lot of my like knowledge on because I again both my parents were straight. Um, both of my parents were straight and

00:34:38.170 - 00:34:50.770

I was a very like there was a GSA at my high school, but I was very like again, I'm not an outgoing person. So I would go to the GSA a few times, but it was always just like there would be louder

00:34:50.770 - 00:35:10.050

people in that room that were not very nice. So a lot of my queer beginnings were online with Tumblr and like having interactions with people on there who were queer, seeing things like learning about queer history online, which I feel is where I have most

00:35:10.050 - 00:35:29.080

of my knowledge about both history and contemporary queer issues. Twitter. Now, especially for me, I follow a lot of queer people. I follow a lot of queer people in the area. Um, queer artists. I get a lot of, because because my feed is so curated towards

00:35:29.080 - 00:35:51.040

queer people. I get a lot of, like, queer news and stuff, so I find that 90% of my experience as a queer person is through online interactions. [OMG]: Can you tell me a little bit more about growing up with Tumblr? And how specifically, why... [KR]: I did mention that

00:35:51.040 - 00:36:07.570

and then just leave it. [OMG]: Why specifically, Tumblr, uh, what do you remember roughly the years that this happened. The years... [KR]: I was like, 2012, but I'm not sure if that's right, but like it was definitely it was in grade nine. I would need to go

00:36:07.570 - 00:36:23.520

back and figure out and do the math to figure out when I was in Grade nine. But it was grade nine when I got it and I started using it regularly, I had, uh, um fan fan fiction fan fiction. I watched a lot of ...a lot

00:36:23.520 - 00:36:38.010

of my interaction with shows was like fan fiction and fan videos on YouTube. This is very embarrassing for me to talk about. It was like fan fiction and like fan videos on YouTube. But I feel like I get a lot of my understanding that I'm queer came

00:36:38.010 - 00:36:51.180

from that which I'm not sure it's quite healthy because I think I unlearned a lot of shit as I got older. But like a lot of my first forays into not being straight, were through that kind of thing. And there was a person who did fan

00:36:51.180 - 00:37:04.650

videos for a certain TV show on YouTube that had a Tumblr and I was constantly checking her Tumblr before I had the app or before I had...they didn't have an app until like years later, before I had, like, an actual account. So then I decided

00:37:04.650 - 00:37:17.780

one day I'm gonna make an account to follow her. So I made account. I followed her. I followed a bunch of people that she followed, and it kind of just snowballed from there. And then I started finding, ah, lot of like, um, queer creators. And then

00:37:17.790 - 00:37:34.710

those led me to like, there's a...There was a really good queer history blog on Tumblr at that point. I'm not sure if they're still really running that much. Because Tumblr imploded on itself last 2018, they introduced like a no adult content thing. But that no

00:37:34.710 - 00:37:55.560

adult content thing also really affected queer creators. So Tumblr is not really the best place for that anymore. Um, they banned female presenting nipples. That was one of their things. Um, so it just yeah, so Tumblr is not great anymore. But it was really like because of

00:37:55.570 - 00:38:13.560

all that fan content that they just absorbed as a ninth grader kind of started that rolling. [OMG: I would just say that since you're using Twitter the most, we could just definitely speak about Twitter. But if you could speak to other social media as well, would you say that

00:38:13.560 - 00:38:35.770

they are queer, friendly? [KR]: No. I don't think that there's any company like Social Media Company that could really say that they're properly queer friendly. [OMG]: Can you tell me why? [KR]: I think there's a lot of issues for those companies as to like appealing to everyone, which comes to the

00:38:35.770 - 00:38:56.840

detriment towards people who are in marginalized communities like queer people and, uh, like POC and that kind of just area of like, not adhering to, like straight, white, male kind of thing. Straight white CIS male kind of thing to where Twitter's harassment policies are terrible. I

00:38:56.840 - 00:39:13.440

think there was a gay journalist who was being like harassed by some, like alt right company, not company, but like alt right news junket kind of thing. And he complained to Twitter, and they were like, Well, we can't really do anything like this doesn't count

00:39:13.440 - 00:39:31.380

of harassment when he was very clearly being harassed, and I feel like a lot of platforms. I know YouTube has a huge problem with demonetizing queer creators because they're not seen like as kid friendly, even though, like nothing that they're doing is inherently, um, like,

00:39:31.390 - 00:39:49.350

not child friendly other than the fact that they're talking about, um, like queer sexualities and like or transitioning or things like that. So, like, I have a lot to owe to social media for my identity and like figuring out like doing it more now with, like,

00:39:49.350 - 00:40:09.210

the gender thing. But, like, I don't, I can't quite say that they're like any social media company's really good for it, because there's always that fear because they always come down to like, the money line of like, well, once you become queer, you're not commercially friendly anymore.

00:40:09.220 - 00:40:26.780

[OMG]: Would you say that that experience has changed from the moment that you started using Tumblr to recent years, that social media has become, um, a present aspect of everyday life? [KR]: Especially for Tumblr because I feel like a lot of their issues came from being so popular

00:40:26.790 - 00:40:42.550

when it first happened that they ended up being bought by Yahoo. I started it all kind of started being implemented, then about because now it was a company owned by a bigger company, and that bigger company saw it as like an investment, and then it didn't quite work

00:40:42.560 - 00:41:01.400

towards what they wanted, so they started trying to mold into something else. With the whole, like getting rid of adult content thing and, like punishing queer creators kind of thing through that. So I will say it's changed because of the whole, because it's much more prevalent

00:41:01.400 - 00:41:14.010

now, like everyone, not everyone, but like most people have, like an instagram. Most people have some kind of like creator or some kind of social media that they use, and it's something that's profitable now. I think a lot of it a lot of comes down to

00:41:14.010 - 00:41:34.040

the economics. I don't know about Facebook. I feel like you could probably say something about Facebook, but I haven't used Facebook since I was like in eighth grade. [OMG]: Would you say, though that has that has prevented from you expressing, uh, yourself in the social media platforms?

00:41:34.410 - 00:41:51.900

[KR]: Um, I think there's always kind of like this, like distance that I want to keep from things. I feel like, because I would not want to be like a famous, famous like, social media famous person and have to deal with that. But as someone who is

00:41:51.900 - 00:42:08.400

just like I think I have, like 100 Twitter followers like, I'm not like social media influencer or anything like that. So, like, I feel comfortable being just like, like my, I have my pronouns in my bio. I have the whole like I'm comfortable, like interacting I don't

00:42:08.410 - 00:42:28.260

tweet that much, but like re-blogging, re-posting, like retweeting stuff I'm comfortable being openly queer online more so than I would be. Like I'm not, like, uncomfortable being openly queer in real life, but, like, I'm not openly, openly, like, I'm not like, Hi, I'm Kayleigh.

00:42:28.270 - 00:42:43.130

I'm bi. I'm like I will, I'm not, like, scared to tell people that, like I told you, I would do this interview like I wasn't like, Oh, God, I can't tell her. Um, but like, I think that it's such like it's very private for me in

00:42:43.130 - 00:42:57.790

general, but online. It's kind of like you're just another like, hiding behind your avatar thing where it's like I can talk about it and I probably talk about it more online than I do just in general conversation with people.[OMG]: In social media you do share those

00:42:57.790 - 00:43:12.860

pictures of yourself, your friends. [KR]: I never use my own pictures for my profile pictures. I think my Instagram picture is me. I lied. My Instagram picture is me from like a few years ago. But most of my other profile pictures are not me. [OMG]: When you click on your

00:43:12.860 - 00:43:28.770

pro, in your profile, I'm gonna see a picture of you, let's say. [KR]: I don't. On my Facebook, yes, but I don't think I have any selfies on my...I have one selfie on my Instagram. [OMG]: What about Twitter? I think you can upload pictures... [KR]: I have none, I have no pictures of myself

00:43:28.770 - 00:43:46.090

on Twitter, which I don't think that necessarily has to do with my like the whole queer thing. I think it's just me. I don't like taking pictures of myself, which is just a whole other thing. This is a whole other ballpark just... [OMG]: And do you follow any

00:43:46.100 - 00:44:02.060

any profiles that are related to queer life at UTM? Do they have any that you know of? [KR]: I don't know. I don't know. UTM is an institution. It feels not...That did not, that's not the way that I wanted to word that. I feel that,

00:44:02.060 - 00:44:18.860

UTM is queer friendly as a whole. I feel like, at least in like, the faculties that I interact with, like the art and the history and the English facilities, faculties faculties like that I interact with. I don't feel like I would be, like, ostracized for

00:44:18.860 - 00:44:42.570

being queer, and I feel like the school in general, I have a terrible memory, but I feel like the school does make an effort to at least show, um, queer events. Again, getting that I feel like getting that flyer in my little residence package of

00:44:42.580 - 00:45:06.190

the queer orientation is really good. Maybe not for me, because I'm a hermit, but, like, for especially for first years coming in to know that there is, like, this community on campus that they can interact with. So social media-wise. I kind of, I do feel

00:45:06.190 - 00:45:25.440

like because the UTM Twitter mentions things every once in a while, and I'm sure that I've seen some queer things on there, but yeah, don't know where I'm going with that. [OMG]: So you think it's, it's, there's just no, not as noticeable as it is when you're

00:45:25.440 - 00:45:47.910

actually in campus. On campus. [KR]: Yeah, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I think that it's just like, a lot of the things are geared towards people who may be more outgoing and more like Oh, yeah, like I'll...Here, this is what I'm going to talk about.

00:45:47.920 - 00:46:08.030

As someone with anxiety, especially when it comes to like interacting with people, and like, just generally being a very personal like, introverted person. A lot of this stuff that's offered is far more like Come and meet people come and like...Which should be good, but I

00:46:08.040 - 00:46:22.340

don't know what would remedy this, but like having options for people where they're not being forced into, like, a social interaction, especially for me. I was lucky because I had that friend who was also queer, who was willing to go to that thing with me in

00:46:22.340 - 00:46:40.730

first year. If I didn't know her, I would not have gone because it's like, Yeah, but I don't I don't know where I'm going with that thought, but kind of the diversification of what things you offer for queer people would be something that I think they

00:46:40.730 - 00:46:52.530

need to work on. The groups in general. But that could just be me not paying attention to what they did at the orientation this year, because I was in fourth year and it was just like a uuhhh. [OMG]: You know, I would like to really touch a

00:46:52.530 - 00:47:18.600

little bit more about on that social media experience. Um, have you experienced in any way through your entire life exposed to social media any sort of negative reaction or positive reaction? Um, not, like, personally directed towards me, but, like, at least once or twice every few

00:47:18.600 - 00:47:39.490

months, you get the whole, like, bi-phobia deal online. Um, there was a Twitter thread a while ago about how bi people were transphobic because bi means like two. So it has to mean same and other gender, which I feel is like there's probably transphobic bi,

00:47:39.500 - 00:47:58.010

there's definitely transphobic bi people. But like the sex, you can't say that sexuality as a whole is transphobic. And I feel like a lot of bi people, especially me personally, I don't really like, identify as bi, but I don't identify as, like, just attraction to

00:47:58.010 - 00:48:17.520

two genders. It's attraction to same and other gender kind of for me, which, maybe, I mean, not shouldn't be using bi if I use that, but I identify as bi so we're going with that. Um. I think there's a lot of that online where there's communities where they're like,

00:48:17.530 - 00:48:35.140

Yeah, um, also a lot around bi people who do end up settling down with men or bi people being attracted to men it's seen as very like, How can you be attracted to a man kind of thing, which is a little weird. A little weird. And I

00:48:35.140 - 00:48:51.740

Just this, like culture, online around being like the perfect bi person and being attracted like 50/50 if you go by the like male and female thing but like being like 50/50 in your attraction or being more attracted to women than you are to men,

00:48:51.750 - 00:49:22.570

which is not great, um, and definitely a lot of transphobia and I don't know what the phobia for non-binary is, but like, kind of like devaluation of non binary identities are like they're not valid. They're not valid. Like the idea that being non binary is not valid

00:49:22.580 - 00:49:47.740

and like bullshit, which is always great to see when you're questioning yourself. But there was a very popular, um, trans youtuber a couple months ago who made a video with a, uh, another trans man who was uh, very much on the like, non binary people

00:49:47.750 - 00:50:03.260

are harming the trans community kind of thing, and she got a lot of pushback for having him even in her video because a lot of people in the non binary community were like, like, very hurt by it and other comments that she had made. So there's

00:50:03.260 - 00:50:26.270

like this whole, like like, yeah, you're in, you have a lot of like, variety in the identities of people around you when you're online, but you also have a lot of like toxic, um, like toxicity as well around, just like if you don't present a way the

00:50:26.270 - 00:50:48.450

person wants you to present. There's another popular trans youtuber who is a transmed which I don't feel comfortable defining properly. But he is very much like, um, like the whole idea of, like, a trans trender as someone who's just pretending to be

00:50:48.450 - 00:51:10.670

Trans to be cool because it's cool online, which is absolutely wild. But there's like this idea around like because of the way that you can curate your experience online, to be surrounded by queer people or like allies that it becomes really like toxic within the group.

00:51:10.670 - 00:51:26.570

Whereas it's like, well, in the group like you might not face as much discrimination in the queer group. But as soon as you go outside, it's like there's people who hate you, even if you like, are like the perfectly presenting trans woman. There are still gonna be people

00:51:26.570 - 00:51:45.640

that are like, like she's a man in a dress kind of thing, which is terrible. Um, but online that trans woman could be seen as not being trans enough or I don't know how the word that but like, not conforming properly and actively harming the community

00:51:45.640 - 00:52:03.350

because of the way that she presents kind of thing. I feel like it's really complicated. When I was younger, Yeah, even not even younger. But I think up until recently, yes, I think now I'm starting to be like I'm just gonna do what I want kind of

00:52:03.350 - 00:52:17.920

thing and like, I guess it also comes down to just like shifting the kind of people that you interact with online. So, like I unfollowed a bunch of people on Twitter like blocked a bunch of accounts that I didn't follow. But I saw interacting with stuff

00:52:17.920 - 00:52:32.630

a lot because it's like I don't need to see that because it actively is against how I present. So it's about like I think I think it would be terrible now being a teenager with the amount of because, like, yeah, I had Tumblr. I didn't have

00:52:32.630 - 00:52:51.190

Twitter when I was that age and Twitter definitely wasn't like the thing that it is now. But like being a teenager now and seeing all that shit would be terrible. Um, because I'm I'm 23. I'm not an adult, I'm technically an adult. But like I...

00:52:51.650 - 00:53:08.460

I'm not a teenager. That would be terrible. Like I'm 23. I can I have enough, well, I don't want to say life experience because I'm 23 but I have enough like experience as being a person, and being like someone who can think critically. I'm not saying that

00:53:08.460 - 00:53:18.760

teens can't think critically, and I'm not saying that teens are wrong for not thinking, but like it's hard as a teenager. I had it, I found it hard, and I had a bunch of queer friends when I was in high school and it was still terrible,

00:53:19.150 - 00:53:39.070

like I hated high school, but...Like I've lost the question but like can you re ask me the question for a second so I can get back? [OMG]: Do you feel like you have to be a certain person online because of the online experience? [KR]: No, because I've gone through

00:53:39.070 - 00:53:50.390

that. And I think that it's like I don't need to conform with these people. Same thing. I could just block them and not see them because I can curate my online content, which I feel like it's a very hard thing to do. I still have

00:53:50.390 - 00:54:03.020

issues with it, where I'm like uuuhh like, you go on the person's profile to like look at it and you're like, I shouldn't have done that kind of thing, but like no, because I can do that. But I think for a lot of people, even people older

00:54:03.020 - 00:54:20.820

than me, it's like hard because you have this expectation, especially if you're a larger creator, which I'm not. But especially if you're like, a larger creator to have these conversations with people, even though they're like actively harming you, which I think is bullshit, I think that

00:54:20.820 - 00:54:36.810

you should be allowed to, like, be like, well, no, you're hurting me. I'm not going to engage in this kind of thing. So, yeah. [OMG]: And as you mentioned that it it's something a little bit more difficult now for teenagers to being exposed to so much. [KR]: It's so

00:54:36.810 - 00:54:56.400

terrible to be a teenager. [OMG]: What would you, what, what would be your advice to them if you, if you, I mean, you see a teenager that is being exposed to so many things online? [KR]: Yeah, in the least like I can't think of the way that I wanted to say that

00:54:56.400 - 00:55:09.670

Sorry. In the least condescending way possible. Take a walk. I know that it's like for me as a teenager I was like, I want like to have people like me around me and I wanna be able to be in this group and I want to

00:55:09.680 - 00:55:26.600

fit in with this group and it's like it doesn't as long as you're not actively hurting someone, it doesn't matter, like you can present however you want. Like you can be a trans man and still wanna wear makeup. And that's fine. And if someone tells you

00:55:26.600 - 00:55:42.870

that you're being a detriment to the trans community by doing this, tell them to shut up because they're wrong. And it's very much like, I think for me, my sexuality and my gender are very personal. And it's not something that I'm gonna be like outright sharing with people.

00:55:43.240 - 00:55:58.670

But I should feel comfortable presenting how I want to present. I should feel comfortable. That's why going back to that guy that told me that I looked non binary. That's why it bugged me so much. Because it's just like, how can you say that one specific

00:55:59.740 - 00:56:16.880

Um, look means that you're this, like, how can you look at someone and say, Oh, they're gay or oh, they're non binary. It's like, how can you be that limiting on a person so for teens: you can block people. You can block people. You can unfollow

00:56:16.880 - 00:56:36.520

people. You can mute people. You can do whatever you want. You can cur, you curate your own feed. So, like, follow people who make you happy. Follow people who uplift your identity. Just don't follow assholes and learn that you're not an asshole for blocking someone because that

00:56:36.520 - 00:56:58.930

took me a while. [OMG]: Well, that's great. Is there anything else you would like to mention? Something that you would like to speak about? [KR]: No, I think I'm good. Just Yeah, just be nice to people. [OMG]: Well, thank you so much for participating. I find your entire

00:56:58.940 - 00:57:12.650

interview amazing. You have some great points and as a historian that well, you're studying history as well, I find that you bring a lot to the conversation from that aspect. You know, you understand the history of it in a more scholarly way. But, you know, it's

00:57:12.650 - 00:57:27.170

like you're also your personal experience, and I think that's amazing. Um, so thank you so much. If there is anything else that you would like to speak about after you can always contact me and thank you so much. Thank you. [KR]: Thank you. Happy to do this.