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[Prabhleen Purewal]: Okay so it's recording. So hi. So thank you for taking part in this interview with us. So before we start could you just provide us with your name please? [Harvinderpal Sandhu]: My name is Harvinderpal, last name, Sandhu. [PP]: Okay so um when we begin we're just going to

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start by talking about some basic questions and then we're going to go more in depth. Then you can go as deep as you feel comfortable with. So um to begin with one categorizing yourself with South Asian culture, what religions and cultures do you think you comply

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with, that you follow like on a daily basis? [HS]: I'm Sikh and my um even though I'm South Asian community but I'm still I'm like Punjabi so like Indian but I'm more Punjabi community and related to and follow Sikh religion. [PP]: So you would say you're mainly from Southern

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Asia in the northern Indian side. Right. [HS]: Yes, yes. So is India and the main, our north, on north India there's a state called Punjab and that's where the whole community and we--our language everything is compared like all according to my state. So we speak

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Punjabi, our community itself called Punjabi. So yeah there's, there's different languages in India but we, my mother tongue you can say is Punjabi. A majority in Punjab are Sikhs, are a majority over there. [PP]: So you would say that in that state it's mostly your culture. [HS]: Yeah, yeah

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we are dominating over there. [PP]: So were you born here or did you migrate here? [HS]: No no I was born in India and I was 15 when...I was born in in Punjab and I was 15 when I came to Canada. [PP]: Okay so that was pretty young.

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[HS]: Yeah so I finished Grade 10 back home. When I came here and then I had to go to high school again pretty much I had to restart the whole thing because my English wasn't good. And so yeah I started from high school here, I didn't go

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to middle school and elementary anything I started with...yeah. [PP]: So what time period did you go to school in like high school in Canada? In like the 70s 80s 90s? [HS]: No no I, I was born in 87 so I was 15 in 2002. So I came

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here in 2002 in August and I started in 2002 uh for in September with my high school and I because my English wasn't good at I don't know maybe right now too, you probably will find... [PP]: Personally I see like I couldn't I couldn't tell like I

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think it's pretty good. [HS]: Yeah I try my best. But uh so when I came so I had to take E. F. L. courses and I had to take ESL classes in the school so I could only go to the school that offers ESL courses

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I couldn't go through uh secondary school high school that's near my house actually had to go further and there's no school bus, no nothing because I was, my house was far, where I live, so uh yeah. [PP]: How was that experience for you knowing that a

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lot of the kids in the neighborhood and like the ones like around your street like you have to go to a different school than them. [HS]: Yeah. Well, when I came, I came in Brampton and when I came there were still not as many Punjabi or

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Indian community as it is right now. But there were still some there's still a lot a lot. But it was my first time going to school in Canada anyway. So I don't know that there's any school that's around my house than when I started. Slowly, but

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when I went to school that offers ESL classes, I found more people because there was a lot of others who also needed ESL classes. So we like it was okay it wasn't too too hard. But uh but when you find out after months two months

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or after one semester that oh if my English was all right or I instead of going to the school that's too far, I could have just walked down the street and there was my high school. So it was a hard uh right? That that's the thing

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when you come here you don't know what's going to happen. [PP]: So you mentioned that there was a lot of kids like you that had to go to the further school because of E. S. L. Did you find it easier to get along because there were kids

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that were like you that had to go through the struggle of going to a different school because of the ESL. Did you feel like it was easier to kind of connect with them because you guys came from like a similar background in terms of why you

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had to attend that school? [HS]: Well it was it all depended on different different classes so when we have ESL class then yeah we there's a lot of students they are required to do improve their English like myself and anybody else. But when you go to

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sports, you go to science class or your math class there are all kinds of students. They are live close to that school and that's their regular school so that's a regular like I mean to say they're not they're not South Asian they're like mix. They're they're

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they're white, they're they're black. They're every other community you can name, they were in the school and the teachers some of the classes if if they were able to offer you ESL they will like you know slowly understand okay finally you're trying to improve your English

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so they will use easy words while speaking English but when some if you go to marketing class they're not going to go for your level of English so we always try to get you're like you know somebody who's you know from ESL class, try

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to get you in the same timetable but it always it doesn't work all the time. So yeah we had a hard time sometimes you don't ask question because you feel that you won't be speaking the right sometimes or you people will make fun of you and

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sometimes you do ask questions and you still don't understand and then then teacher were pretty helpful and most most of the time they were like okay fine if you don't understand just come to me after the class and they can explain me better or an easier

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way or they can. The good thing was because it was a ESL school like uh offered ESL classes. So there was a lot of teachers they were from the Indian community. So in in like worst case scenario they will just call the teacher and do the

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translation. But I try not to be the that one student that always have to call a teacher for assistance but if it has to be we had... [PP]: Yeah you try your best right and end of the day. There's only so much you can do. [HS]: Yeah when I

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came like there's a level of ESL. It starts from A. And yeah one semester you do ESL A, and then you know how you have English grade nine, grade ten, grade eleven, grade twelve. So we so there's ESL starts from A,

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B. C. D. So they are all the different classes and then when you complete your ESL E, it goes A to E, Right? So when the ESL E. is considered as ninth grade English. So when you go in ESL E

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That means you passed nine and then you just go straight to the grade 10. So I started with B so I was like yeah there were some people in A but again, A, B, whatever, just a matter of one semester. Uh But there was my teacher in

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E. S. L. classes. They used to have like you know when I say something I suppose I say any any anything when they asked me or like you know they read the story then you got to summarize it or read the book, you got to watch

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a movie or whatever. Um You say something and they will they won't stop me even if I'm saying it wrong but they will repeat the correct way of sentence. As soon as I finish my sentence They will say the same sentence. But with the right

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words right forms like you know if there's a past tense so like I'll probably say I probably say like I suppose I say I like the story, I'll probably say I like the story and then they'll just they will just my teacher will just say oh

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yes you liked this too so she will correct me but she will not stop me. She will let me finish it then she will correct the my my mistake. And then she and then she tells me, okay, I whenever you I find something wrong, I'll repeat

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your sentence and you just keep focused what did I do? And that that's all trying to improve every time. [PP]: Okay. So I never knew that because I didn't, I wasn't in ESL because I was born here, but I did have some kids in my school that

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were in ESL because now they offer it. But um I didn't know that. That's actually a pretty good way of um like trying to how you said that. That's the way they tried to get the tenses used to the way... [HS]: I think it was most

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more of teacher by teacher. Some teachers didn't care some teachers. So it's it's a way of way of a teaching I guess like some teachers were like that some teachers they're like just do this and then that that like, like you know every one is different.

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It was one of the features which I think help me. I don't know maybe that's the thing that it actually helped me or not, but that's what I think that it helped me. Yeah. [PP]: Okay so um those are some really good points about your ESL

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experiences in high school. So along with that. So um could you describe how life was growing up? Like um the community and like even maybe after high school like in post secondary how the community was around you, how the people were? [HS]: Well people like when

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I came to Canada I before I come to Canada I was so excited that I'm going to go to Canada and but only fear that I had was English right and when I came I started to see I like I go to Sikh temple in

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the weekend and you try to see there's a lot of other Indian or Punjabi like my friends also in the in the temple which I see them somehow in the school, like maybe they're not in my like suppose I'm in the ESL B and they're already they

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were here like two years before me and they are in grade 10 English now so they are like way ahead of me but they were like you know I talked to me and then they were like yeah whenever you need help just let me know like the also

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as I said like that school was offering ESL courses but there was a lot of not only Indians but also like I mean Indians but not only Punjabi but also that other parts of India other parts of uh like you know some countries like Bangladesh, Iran

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Afghanistan, some kids were like that too, so I didn't have that I didn't face that problem in the school that there's only like I'm I'm the minority and you face a lot of like a racism issues and all that [coughs] excuse me, that's because that's what

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I think is that because I like there was a lot of us like if even if someone does want to say something bad to me make fun of me. But then there's that would only happen if I was alone or if I was new for them.

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when I came to Canada I was I had a fear that I had a turban on and they're going to like, you know probably the people over here, they won't, they will make fun of me and I'll probably end up cutting my hair. My friend did

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it. He had some issues like that. He was feeling embarassed because because he was I think somebody used to maybe like you know make fun of him in this class. But that was before me when I came here. He told me that he had like

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when when I met him he didn't have his turban. He already had his hair cut. But then he told me that you keep it because I like and he's like I'm always there for you because when I came there was no one for me but I

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will help you and I make sure that doesn't happen. And it didn't happen. Even a community that's non Indians like you know all the white or black or any other any other community. They were really okay with it because again, maybe because we are in Brampton

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when I came I landed in Brampton and I'm still in Brampton even now right, so there's but when I still go outside like suppose I go to somewhere north and which they didn't they didn't have so many uh in their regular life they'll like

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you know look at me, they question me like what is what who are, who are you, which country you from? Why you have a turban on, which religion you follow? So yeah, but I didn't have any bad bad experience, but again, that's because I think I

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had a help and we were I was not really yeah I was still minority in my school but I wasn't the only one I would say. Uh yeah and if probably I went to a regular school that's next to my house then I probably would have

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faced more challenges. That's what I think. I don't know. That's right. Even when I went after we finished my high school I went to Sheridan College back then Sheridan College was not that I'm talking about like back in 2007. Yeah, somewhere there um back then there

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were still uh few, few brown community in the in in in my school but there were a lot of kids they were born here like you are, right, so by then my English was was okay but still not they can all at the level of the

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person like how you are. So they would help me out because they knew English better. In high school to college is totally different when you go to college, just the level of study is totally like, except the teacher will just give you a lecture or go

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through the power slides, PowerPoint slides and you just kind of do your own thing that you've got a make sure that everything you you always gotta do your homework extra harder and then it's still in English. So when I had any trouble, I used to

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ask, I try to make a friend that knows English so at least it helped me. And also I learn English more from them while speaking to them in English and I told I would tell them straight up like I don't know English, but I speak in

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English, don't make fun of me. If you're gonna make fun of me, then I'll just talk to somebody else. And they were pretty helpful. Yeah. I had like, by all means, in Canada. I I liked living. I still like living here and I don't have

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any bad experience. Yeah, I heard some situations with other people, but I would say I was lucky with that. Yeah. And when you come to Canada or when you come to any other country and you don't know um their their culture, you don't know their language.

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I think you also need to little bit, you need to be a little bit more lenient, right? You have to yes, you do have to ignore something, right? Uh Then you also have to adopt some other culture what they do, how they do it. So yeah,

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that's I think that's where any, I think that's with anybody, even if you you born here. And I think if you go to, even though you go to America or you England or or anywhere in Europe, even though, you know English, but their lifestyle is different

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than what we doing in here. They don't get no snow. They're doing just different than we ours. And so you can also have to ignore some stuff. You also have to adopt some stuff. You gotta be more lenient and that's what I think. [PP]: Yeah. Yes. So

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from your stories, I think that's really like a good thing that you didn't have to face much discrimination because most of the time we hear things that like people get bullied a lot or their their feelings. I [HS]: think that I think what the reason that regarding

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that is because I think, I was in ESL school [PP]: I think that allowed you to create like a support system that was helpful and then you had friends that were like you which allowed you guys to kind of connect more and be more I

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guess like together. [HS]: Yeah. So our more quantities, there like, you know, you can see a lot of Indians are there. So if I was the only one and then they then there's everybody else has been different and they probably make fun of me or they probably

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bully me right? But this way it was it was okay. [PP]: Okay that's good to hear. So um we'll just we covered a lot of the questions so that's good. Um So yeah, going back to how you were comparing how you felt um when you went to

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college, comparing yourself to kids that were born here, did you ever feel um in comparison to them that you were ever disadvantaged because you weren't born here like they were? [HS]: I would say yes or no. Yes is because of my language barrier. Some of the things

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when you like when I would speak English or I would try to understand my teacher, I still have to like translate all the time, like I have to, whatever you say to me in English always I try to put it in in my language uh and

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then I try to again get the answer, then again put the answer in English and then speak it and write it down on the paper if you're doing an exam right or if it's an English exam or if you're doing an essay or you're doing some

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sort of a presentation, especially there's a lot of presentations in colleges or right and when you go there in front of the whole class um you if if you were going on to do some presentation you will just speak English fluently because that's your first language

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and you wouldn't have to have even for uh so like, you know, when you, when you present because you did your practice, you did presentation, but when you ask the question, anybody have any questions, when people ask questions or teacher asked questions if you want to

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answer, you really have to know your stuff more than people who knows English, because you don't know what if sometimes you know the answer, but you can't tell them because you don't know how to say it. But that's advantage I think the people who were born

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here and their, they had English, like from day one they can explain it better than me because that's your first language, right? And then when I came, when you're came as immigrants, right? You come with the family, uh you have to do work, like you don't

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have to do the job while you're in school because you're where you're person who's born here, their parents have lived like they're established already right, where my parents are still struggling. They're, we're still trying because this is the first generation right? That they have to also

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go to school so they can get a better job, but they also have to go to work because they want to support the family. So when I was in, I started working pretty early. So when I was in high school, I started a full time job

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with my high school, right? Uh and when I, and that was okay working in afternoon shift, evening shift because in the morning I'll go to school, in the evening I go to class, I mean I go to work and then you sleep and the next day

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you go to school again. Right? But when you're, when you're in school and when you're in college, you're, your timetable is all over. That one class in the morning one in the afternoon and when you're working, so your boss won't be that flexible

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according to you. Well, they need their job done. So I was working at midnight. So I worked night time and when I go to school next day, early morning at 8:00 or 9:00 in the class, sometimes your mind is not 100% right? So I won't understand

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sometimes or like, yeah, you're, you're, you're listening, you're you're you're awake but your brain is sleeping, right? So that I think also affected my studies or anybody's study where if someone is born here, they just, they don't have to work or they do part time jobs.

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So they don't have to uh like, you know, overwork themselves. So that's kind of advantage for them I think, which I feel more challenge. Uh when I was in high school, like my school wasn't like I, right, my school was far from my house. Um, So

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we had to take a transit. So like a Brampton transit, you take actually transit bus, public transit to get to the school. So yeah, you do get a little discount because your student ticket but I still have to put the ticket in and then you go

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there, you have to wait for the bus, you have to change two busses. But it's like a anywhere almost an hour to get to school. Like if you want to go to school, starts school at 8:15, you got to leave your house at seven or

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7:30 the latest. And where if I was like living next door, I'll probably just walk at 8:00 and get their at 8:15 right? So when I'm coming back because also again the financial issues still there. Um So in the morning, you know that you want to

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get to school so you'll take a bus but on the way back I'll just walk all the way every day like two hours a walk. No problem. At least I'm saving the ticket so I can use it next day in the morning. So where my like

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I paid $20 for maybe 15 tickets that will last for 15 days right? If I use both ways, it will just go off within a week. So I try not like you know, trying to say because you know that your parents working hard and you just

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because you're just gonna walk home and you can maybe like you know save another $10 for from your parents pocket. You try to do that. Which I think if I was born here or my English was all right, I probably go to the next next door

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next door school and then I wouldn't have to struggle with any of that. That struggle continues in your high school, in your college, at your workplace. Like anywhere you do, it's like that. You've got to. So that's one of the things that I think

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even though as of being same community, if I say, but if you're born here or not born here, I think it makes a big difference. [PP]: Yeah. Yeah. That's actually pretty inspirational because I actually live pretty close to my high school. So I I like sometimes my

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parents would drop me off or even if I walked like it will be maximum like a 15 minute walk and... [HS]: That's, that's what I think. That's where the main like my my daughter now she's born here, she goes to school, that's like next door and she

00:28:49.920 - 00:29:09.100

goes to school bus, but that's like school busses, two minutes walk. Yeah, I would have got that if I was born here, but my kid is getting it. I didn't get that. That's reality right? That right? [PP]: Mhm. Yeah, so I I understand the perspective you're

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talking about because like your daughter, I also had a bus for elementary and middle school and then in high school because it was close to my house, like I was like walking or easily driving distance. Yeah it does make a difference because now like um the

00:29:22.110 - 00:29:33.880

university's I'd say like 30 minutes away from my house. So I do have to drive and like I feel like somewhat of what you're saying, you have to wake up early if you do want to make it on time. [HS]: And then, when you're when you're in school

00:29:33.890 - 00:29:52.240

like when you're trying to even school college, university wherever you are, the time is the main thing like you if you have extra time you can put that time to rest yourselves then you can perform better or study then you can perform better. So like you

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know and that that is also like a lot of uh nowadays a lot of kids probably in your classes also coming from international countries like some other countries when I was in college, yes we had some but now I see more and there and back then

00:30:17.320 - 00:30:40.810

their fee was high too right? And it was like I was paying, back and I'm talking about 2007-2008, Sheridan College. One semester tuition fee was like about 2000 bucks, right? And we're, they would pay like 5500 for the same class, same, everything right? And now

00:30:40.810 - 00:30:59.170

it's more so they I think they try to also work them like they work and then they don't have a car like you know how you I was already saying so an hour or two hours bus ride and then then they try to perform well because

00:30:59.640 - 00:31:19.340

there's so much pressure on, on, on, on a person. I think more pressure on a person who's not born here, but then they, but worse than the person who was born here. [HS]: Yeah, I think like how right now with the current covid 19 situation and everyone

00:31:19.340 - 00:31:32.310

is studying from home, I think that's, I think that's like better, especially for international students as well because they can be in their countries, like even for me, whereas, like instead of leaving like 30 minutes early in the summer, an hour early for the drive in winter, like I

00:31:32.310 - 00:31:47.760

just wake up five minutes and I'm ready for class, like. [HS]: Yeah no, I think it, I think it worked out well that way. [PP]: Like, like you said, like getting rest is really important to perform well and back then it used to be, everyone's surviving on 5-6

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hours of sleep, but now there's so much more because there's no commute you just get up from your bed and come to class. [HS]: Yeah, that's true. That's true. I think that the Covid does a lot of things going to change. The world is not going to

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be same. [PP]: Yeah, exactly. So going back to the cultural differences we were talking about. So, um, considering that you're now an adult, like you said that when you came here, um, you were a little bit fearful of how you're gonna get treated because of maybe you

00:32:18.370 - 00:32:28.880

wear a turban or your skin color. So um how you felt when you came here, Do you still feel like that when you're adult? Like going to certain places? Like, oh, what if they look at me like that or what if someone points me out

00:32:28.880 - 00:32:50.760

due to my skin color or do this or? [HS]: Well, there's there's every type of people, even though you like, even now I know English that I can handle myself. But still, when you, there's some places there's there's always stereotyping happening everywhere, right? When you

00:32:51.140 - 00:33:18.170

see a person, I even at work places or even if I go to store it all depends. There's some you can't control some people's thinking. Yes, I do. People do give me different looks, which I feel they do, man. Because I wear a turban or um

00:33:18.180 - 00:33:44.960

easily point stereotype? Like yeah, I can, I can be easily pointed versus like, if I do, for example, if I do any any and anything wrong on the road while driving, they'll just like some somebody next to my car, they'll just say,

00:33:45.540 - 00:34:09.000

oh, go back to your country. If you're going to drive like this, maybe it was not even on purpose, right? If you're gonna drive, you're going to make a mistake and where I think there's like there's a lot of time, um the same mistake, the person

00:34:09.000 - 00:34:28.720

who was born here who is not brown, like they're white or black, they will make the same mistake but when they approach to them therefore that they'll totally behave differently, just probably say like you know um keep your eyes on the road or drive carefully. With

00:34:28.720 - 00:34:48.640

me, they'll just say oh go back to your country if you drive like this, this is not just how you drive here. So yeah there's there's always um but I think that's that's that's normal if even if even if I go to any country or if

00:34:48.640 - 00:35:06.400

anybody come to my country. Mhm. If I go back home like in in India, if somebody come there which is not Indian and I think people over there will probably do the same thing. Well I think that's a that's a normal but there's I think there's

00:35:06.400 - 00:35:30.290

more people, they they are not like that in the Canada at least that I have experienced. But I work uh in ah in in customer service industry, I worked I did drive a taxi right for like five years and I like when you drive a

00:35:30.290 - 00:35:59.060

cab, you see every type of person like there's there's like there's like you name it everybody like from from like poor to all the way to the millionaires from from white to black, from brown to anybody, you see anybody from drunk to sober and

00:35:59.070 - 00:36:22.960

like like you can say like a priest like you you you you give ride to everybody. Um So there's you can't really put everybody on the same uh same boat that oh oh all the white people are gonna discriminate me because I'm brown. Uh No, there's

00:36:22.960 - 00:36:44.440

some people there. I have I still have some friends, they're white. Mhm. And uh yes, they do make a mistake but I think we are not still not that many, our we're still minority. There's some people they do ask me respectfully at which country or which

00:36:44.450 - 00:37:07.280

religion you follow. But they mixed me with either Hindu or Muslim with my turban. Mm hmm. Right. So I explain them then they know it. But that's again because we are not that like, you know, we are still small. Small amount of people everywhere in

00:37:07.280 - 00:37:28.590

the world world. So um I would say yes, we you do know when you go somewhere even in school, I mean even in the store or workplace, yes, you you do have a little bit of fear that yeah, you might be discriminated because of your your

00:37:28.590 - 00:37:50.940

your your skin color, the way you look, right? But that's not the always case. But that's, and also that's because it did happen to everybody sometimes in their lifetime because they're not white or they're not. Yeah, they're not the same color as most of

00:37:50.940 - 00:38:09.130

the people here. Oh yeah, you do have a fear but I as I said before, you gotta ignore some stuff, just mind your own business because you you know that that's whatever there, if someone is behaving like that, it's not worth it. Yeah. [PP]: As long as you're

00:38:09.130 - 00:38:31.940

doing your own thing, your... [HS]: That, that that's what I that's what I learn while driving cab: ignore. [PP]: Yeah. Where did you drive the taxi if you don't mind, which city? Which city did you drive the taxi in? [HS]: Oh, I drove in Oakville. [PP]: Okay. So as per

00:38:31.940 - 00:38:58.330

my knowledge, it's not a predominantly South Asian um majority, right? [HS]: No, it's majority, it's like a senior town and also a lot of European people live there. Yeah. Now it's built up so much now there is a lot of mixture like everybody's coming there, but when I drove there

00:38:58.330 - 00:39:32.040

was mostly uh mostly senior uh European white uh customer we used to drive and I think and they treated so well, they treated me so well. Because of that I think I had more uh my my my way of thinking about other communities had did change.

00:39:32.520 - 00:39:55.420

I was somehow more scared or more, I was in more fear when I was before I drive in the cab, but with driving a cab. Yeah you do get sometimes um like you know people will run, they'll run away with your fare. Uh but if you think

00:39:55.430 - 00:40:20.660

about, you cannot really even judge a person if they're drunk or not, if they're white or not, sometimes you if you even if you're going to totally judge that this person is a drunk, he, and he's a white and he's gonna run away. That person give

00:40:20.660 - 00:40:43.280

you the most respect that you can ever get. Where you get your own color, like a brown skin person in your cab drunk and that person is disrespectful. Like, like, like you don't know, like I can't even say. So I think it's not, so that's what

00:40:43.280 - 00:41:03.200

I said. You can't put the whole community in one boat. Everybody's are different. Um Yeah, I, I learned a lot while driving a cab and I think everybody should drive a cab once again, once and once in their lifetime. [PP]: Yeah. Like personally when you said Oakville

00:41:03.200 - 00:41:17.230

like um I just, I would have thought that it was like a harsher experience. Like, as you said, you were kind of people entering the community, but I'm glad to hear that you said it was like, uh when you... [HS]: When you actually go like, you

00:41:17.230 - 00:41:42.080

know, when most of the people here from Europe over there, England and they, and they've been to a lot of countries already, right? Their exposure is more like a broad. You know, it's pretty big then then they're thinking is not, not so narrow that all Indians are

00:41:42.080 - 00:42:03.200

like that or all Black people are like that. No. Yeah, there are some, and as I said, and you will get those bad apples everywhere. For sure. So yeah, but overall my experience and Oakville was while driving the car was alright. So

00:42:03.200 - 00:42:18.430

nice people. [PP]: Okay, that's good. Do you think that if you drove this cab in the Region of Peel, like maybe Brampton and Mississauga, do you think your experiences would have been a little different? [HS]: Yes, 100%. The community is totally different over there because I would,

00:42:19.900 - 00:42:46.610

I do know somebody who used to drive in Mississauga and I think somewhere in peel, I think Mississauga or Brampton and he was driving in Oakville when I was working in there and he said the, the people, the community so much safer, even and he's

00:42:46.620 - 00:43:07.540

like, people over here are in Oakville, are so much more friendly and, and I think that was because also not much younger generations there. [PP]: Okay. Yeah. [HS]: You're young generation even though like, yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not saying you. But like, you know, most of

00:43:07.540 - 00:43:29.240

the young like they are troublemakers when you, right? So, um, when your senior in your car, they treat you as your, your kid like, you know, you're like, they give you blessings and you all, you're trying to do is your job, there's nothing extra you're doing,

00:43:29.250 - 00:43:48.810

but they feel like you're doing extra for them, you're taking care of them because they, I think they're they're living by themselves most of the time. So yeah, he said that uh, community in Peel is a lot of, its mixture of first of all a mixture

00:43:48.810 - 00:44:10.730

of lot of like different, different color community out there, but also there's a lot of young generation, there's a lot of new immigrant people in Peel versus Oakville mostly European there. Well and they were there since like World War Two, like there's a lot of people there

00:44:10.730 - 00:44:36.800

there from it. So it's totally different I would say then than even like in [coughs] excuse me. Even in Oakville, I would like, you can, you can think like this, uh, you can maybe get more better idea that in Mississauga, Oakville, I mean Mississauga and Brampton

00:44:36.810 - 00:44:52.250

anywhere in Peel, in Toronto. They all have cameras in there in their cabs inside. Like you're always being recorded as soon as you open the door, they take the picture. As soon as you close the door, in Peel, anywhere in Peel, when you get in a cab

00:44:52.260 - 00:45:13.060

right? And in Oakville, there was no camera at all. In your cab because they're like, it's, it's not needed because it's so much safer. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, yeah. So you can say you can tell by that that it's totally different than then Peel or

00:45:13.060 - 00:45:25.510

Toronto or anywhere else. [PP]: Actually personally. I've never been in a cab before. So that's really surprising to know that like I would have just assumed that like the same way they have cameras in all busses now. I just thought they would have them in all the

00:45:25.510 - 00:45:48.140

cabs but that's an eye opener that they don't have it in certain regions. [HS]: Well, I think only in Halton that Oakville, and and and I think Milton that's it everywhere else they have and maybe they have it now, it's been like four years since I

00:45:48.140 - 00:46:04.550

left driving cabs. All right. So maybe they have them there now too. But uh but like Brampton and I mean Peel and Toronto, they always have it, since I since I've been in a country like 2002, they always had a Yeah, they're pictures weren't too good

00:46:04.550 - 00:46:27.790

before now, the knowledge is better, but they always had a camera's versus than. [PP]: Okay, that's cool. Okay, so um so when comparing yourself um like how um so you're South Asian, So comparing yourself and when you were a child um back when you were younger, do

00:46:27.790 - 00:46:43.790

you think there are different pros and cons uh compared to the South Asian child growing up in Peel today? Like for example, your own kids, you think there's different pros and cons of being South Asian when you were younger versus today? [HS]: Yes. Uh pros more community.

00:46:44.180 - 00:47:15.720

Mhm. So more help for you. Yeah, more easily. Um like, you can get your uh the help is easier for you to find your issues are it's easy for you to explain and get the to... there are more sources now to get your issues resolved versus back

00:47:15.720 - 00:47:38.120

then it was limited and it's keep on going, but the cons is um when I was in school, even though, as I said, ESL class was only class when we were all students there from other parts of in the whole entire world, but they

00:47:38.120 - 00:48:02.300

don't have their English as a first language. But everywhere every other classes we were sitting with like, you know, all the non South Asian communities, so we would talk to them, we would see what they eat, what they what they wear, what they talk about, what

00:48:02.300 - 00:48:25.810

music they listen, what um how they're in their family, their culture is different, they talk to us, they will bring food from home, which is totally different. Ah we're so I would get more exposure to their culture because we were sitting, we were mixed. Nowadays, I

00:48:25.810 - 00:48:53.300

think there's more one community then you're limited to one community. That's what I think one of the con. Mhm. Another con is again um when you, because when you get so comfortable in one uh your own set of people. Yeah. Right. And when you go to different

00:48:53.420 - 00:49:10.610

like, you any go to workplaces, you won't be working just in Brampton or in Peel, you could be working in Toronto, you could be working in, I don't know, outside of Ontario, then you will be in a big shock and you have to people or or

00:49:10.610 - 00:49:35.240

when you go um to like, you know what they eat what I like the way they live their life versus everybody in your group is they're all having a similar family stories, cultural stories and there when they have the conversation with versus when I was I

00:49:35.240 - 00:49:55.670

was uh little when they're talking to me our conversation we learn from like for example, I didn't know what burrito when I before I come to Canada, I don't know what the pizza are pasta up when I came to Canada. But then you get to know

00:49:55.670 - 00:50:23.960

that now like Shawarma or uh any anything any other countries, Mexican or um like Middle East uh food, European food, European the way they dress up or whenever they have their own festivals, you will know why the why they're dressed up like that or because they

00:50:23.960 - 00:50:47.420

have and we also share with them and we have our when we have our festivals or anything like that. I think that one of the cons that I think people will not be getting exposure to now versus when I was a kid and uh and then I had

00:50:47.420 - 00:51:08.190

it and even though now even I still feel my kids, you know they're young, I mean they're going to kindergarten but well well my my daughter's class is pretty mixed but it's still I wanted always wanted like that like that way they get to know more

00:51:08.760 - 00:51:27.420

about other culture and we also learn from them. Mhm. Yeah, so it's it's like eye opener was for me which is which was pro for me and con for the nowadays in Peel. Yeah. [PP]: Yeah. No I agree with that because I can relate to that.

00:51:27.420 - 00:51:40.910

When I was growing up in my elementary school it was quite mixed. Um like there was some South Asians like there was a mix of everyone. Yeah. Then as I got older, especially in high school there was like a huge dominance of South Asian people because

00:51:40.910 - 00:52:03.130

I grew up in Brampton today. [HS]: Even even when you talk about on your street, the kids that you play with now everybody is like you know, if your neighbors are same community versus neighbor when I was little, neighbors were different community and I used to go

00:52:03.130 - 00:52:23.600

to my friends' house which we're not Indians, which were not South Asians and I would like, you know, totally have a different perspective and I am going because I'm thinking that I'm going like my own relative how they, but when you go there is totally different. Yeah

00:52:23.610 - 00:52:45.020

some bad things with you like you know yeah, they like you know drinking uh they'll drink or smoke in front of the kids. We, we, that's eye opener, that's that's like a shocker for me. How can you do that? So so that's why um that was

00:52:45.020 - 00:52:57.960

I think pro con, whatever you can say. [PP]:Yeah. Yeah. Like even when I was growing up when I was really young, like I said my school was more mixed so my neighbors were actually white and even though they didn't go to my school, I will still

00:52:57.960 - 00:53:09.460

play with them quite frequently. But then when I got older my school was mostly South Asian. And then I stopped playing with those neighbors and then even how you talk to music like we like most of my school with South Asian and we all used to listen

00:53:09.460 - 00:53:22.770

to Punjabi music because that's what everyone did. So it was more normal. So I think in that case you had more exposure to this stuff than me and considering I was born here. [HS]: Well now you can think that's like uh I don't know, 10, 15 years

00:53:23.450 - 00:53:41.520

younger than me. You know, you were versus my kids, another 20. So it's totally different. [PP]: Mhm. So um looking back to um so you said you came here with your family, you came to Canada with your family? Are you happy with this decision or do you wish

00:53:41.520 - 00:54:02.130

that they didn't do this or do you wish they moved at a different time or...? [HS]: I'm totally happy. I love Canada. The system is better than back home. Yeah. Even opportunities, more opportunities are here. The main thing is there's no corruption back home is so much corruption. You

00:54:02.130 - 00:54:22.730

gotta know someone to get your stuff done. Over here, you, everybody gets what they deserve. [PP]: Yeah. Mhm. Okay. So as you, yeah. So as you mentioned, you have children of your own. So do you think um so aside from the cultural differences you mentioned, do you

00:54:22.730 - 00:54:40.680

think there's anything else that's different about the Peel that they're growing up in versus you like, is there anything different to like the safety or um anything else that you can think of? [HS]: Well, it's the...Peel is getting more crowded every day. Yeah and whenever you get more

00:54:40.690 - 00:55:05.080

population. Yeah good people come, but then the bad apple is going to be always there. Uh So Peel I think it's getting overcrowded uh eventually they will have to we will have to move out of here uh because the kids probably won't find a job in

00:55:05.080 - 00:55:26.620

Peel. Yeah. Um and I think when nowadays kids, I don't know what they're gonna do in 20 years from now, but I think nowadays kids wants to uh live close to where they work. So other than that I just thought I already told you the culture

00:55:26.620 - 00:55:45.270

is different then from now and uh Yeah. Nothing. Nothing really. I don't think so for everything. [PP]: Yeah. So um when you talk to people who grew up around the same time as you um whether they were born here or um they were immigrants, do you feel that

00:55:45.270 - 00:55:55.710

if they grew up in a different area Peel. So you said you grew up in brampton, do you think that if someone grew up in maybe um Mississauga or maybe even outside of Peel? Do you think they would have a different experience than the one you

00:55:55.710 - 00:56:23.270

had? [HS]: Yes, they already, I know some people that they were either living in Burlington, they grew up there um. They're totally different there. I like you know that's one of the pro that living in Peel close to your community, that your family

00:56:23.270 - 00:56:50.970

values, they're still alive. Yeah but there's also same Indian same from the same part of the India person. They were born in Burlington um and their lifestyle is totally different because uh yeah I did used to have my mixture like you know white friends and black

00:56:50.970 - 00:57:20.460

friends uh but they they had a but I'm still, my majority friends were South Asians right? But with them in Burlington they were mostly all non South Asian. So their lifestyle, their their their family values is totally different. It's not the same as mine. Yeah.

00:57:20.830 - 00:57:43.130

They're....respect towards their parents is not as much as mine or my friends are like whoever from Peel. Uh but I think that's as I said like you know I told you about other communities like I'll see they smoke or they drink in front

00:57:43.130 - 00:58:04.840

of the kids now they are doing the same while their kids are home but their parents didn't do it when they were kids because they were still carrying those values from back home. But I think that they adopted because of the community that was surrounding them.

00:58:05.220 - 00:58:24.560

So I think that's that is the difference and which will always be there. I think so. [PP]: Okay and um so you mentioned that uh like some of your friends who were here before you like they had some issues with like cultural um like bullying or whatever.

00:58:24.560 - 00:58:40.730

So do you think that overall the friends you had in high school like the ESL friends like they had the same experiences as you mostly. [HS]: Yeah, because yeah, my school wasn't too bad but yeah, I think, I think we yeah, we we little bit problems here

00:58:40.730 - 00:58:56.530

and there, but again, it all depends how you take it. Uh and we were pretty much we're alright. Yeah. There are some some issues here and there. Like you always have even those issues I think even if you were not South Asian, even if you were

00:58:57.120 - 00:59:17.670

light or just it will be white versus white. Same thing. Yeah, like some issues are there... [PP]: Yeah problems come everywhere, with high school is the same for everyone, right? [HS]: There's also sometimes some teacher yes, like you know, doing their thing, but you take it personally and you try to think

00:59:17.670 - 00:59:35.950

that oh maybe I'm being targeted because I'm different skin, that's different. Then some people try to think like that if if you want to have that in your mind, then you always think negative about the person. That's what I'm saying. It all depends how you think,

00:59:35.960 - 00:59:51.900

but I think overall we, that we were alright. [PP]: Yeah. And then just the last couple of last few couple of questions. So um comparing your process of when you came here, do you think the process is easier for families and children today compared to when you

00:59:51.900 - 01:00:10.310

came,? [HS]: What do you mean? Like process? [PP]: Like how you came from India to Canada and like how it was for you guys to get used to everything here. Like the system. Uh it's easier for them, you know. [HS]: I think it's easier now. Yeah, because of the

01:00:10.310 - 01:00:30.510

globalization, I would say, uh there's a lot of, as I said, all the for example, I'll just give you one example um like all the exposure to different food from different countries that I never had it back home, like fast food, right? You have fast food

01:00:30.510 - 01:00:55.240

or like Mexican food or like Italian food, like pizza, pasta or whatever. Um or like burritos, shawarma, everything, um, chow mein noodles, whatever. Like now when I came there was nothing like that back home. Now I go back home, I see everything there.

01:00:55.610 - 01:01:17.400

Okay. Yeah. When I came from there back in 2002 there was not even a one single indoor mall, double story mall back home in my whole state, my whole province right. Now I go there if they're all there when they come now it's not a

01:01:17.400 - 01:01:40.510

big culture shock for them, it's easier for them to adopt because it's just better over here then as of a system-wise, but but there's nothing like when I came here, I didn't know how to work, how to, how to put money and get stuff from

01:01:40.510 - 01:02:01.530

vending machine, right? When the best small example when, where they already already know about it. And back then there was no this video calls, there was no internet. So now people over there, they already get themselves prepared when they come because everything is on the internet

01:02:01.530 - 01:02:20.390

okay? You need you need uh this much English, you need this, you need, you gotta be, you gotta have this people even when their back home already. They already booked there, their their their place to live from back home. So when I came I don't know

01:02:20.390 - 01:02:38.610

anything. Yeah, so I would I would give more credit to internet for that. But yeah, it's easier for them. Yeah, struggle with more because everything is getting more expensive. Yeah, but back then struggle was also there was there was a different type of struggle. Yeah, struggle

01:02:38.610 - 01:02:56.580

is already always going to be there. If someone moves to the country it will be different. Uh but struggle will be there, it'll be different types of trouble. That's it. [PP]: Okay. Yeah. And just the last question um do you have any advice for kids who are

01:02:56.590 - 01:03:10.430

currently growing up in a new place? Just like you were like coming into high school and uh somewhere where they have no friends and no experience, like what advice would you give someone that's in that situation? [HS]: My advice to everybody, even my friends is like

01:03:11.000 - 01:03:34.420

um as I said already earlier in the interview: Be more lenient first of all um ignore some stuff and prepare for the worst that way you won't feel bad. Yeah there was a time when I came home and I started crying when I went to school

01:03:34.900 - 01:03:52.760

and that was because I wouldn't understand anything in English in in my history class. Mhm. Uh and when I was back home I was reading history about about India when I came here it's totally different and they expect me to perform same as someone who already

01:03:52.760 - 01:04:22.650

known from from the day one. Mhm. Right. Um So yeah you will run into problem whoever come here you will run into problems bullying, racism. But it all depends on how you take it. Uh You need to ignore some stuff but you also have to adopt

01:04:22.650 - 01:04:48.630

some Canadian cultural values as well. Uh If you want to learn English you got up speak English, you can't be shy. Um If you wanna ,there's a saying, they say, in Rome, do as a Roman does right? So when you come Canada you have to

01:04:48.630 - 01:05:08.980

do some some stuff that you don't want to do. But that's need yeah like dress, like like a dress up sense you can't walk on the street with the traditional clothes while what you were wearing back home. That's because of the culture over here. So you've

01:05:08.980 - 01:05:33.010

got to that's what my advice everybody is. Try to force yourself with a different don't make just Indian friends or South Asian friends, Try to have your company as a mixture. You will learn more and you will also teach other as well about yourself

01:05:33.010 - 01:05:59.430

and that's it. And once you do that you will you will somehow you will learn how to uh talk to kids or how to spend time or even how to handle a bullying in different language or by if you if you are are

01:05:59.440 - 01:06:21.910

always with Indians or with your own community, you won't be able to handle if someone else attack you from other community. But if you're already in the community as well you can also somehow handle it better than that. So I think that's my advice that keep

01:06:21.910 - 01:06:39.900

your mixture. Yeah my advice to you as well you're growing up everybody, try to keep like you know your company as a mixture. So that way you learn more and you also teach them more that way everybody learned. Mhm. My I always keep my friends

01:06:39.910 - 01:06:59.800

mixture. You know I have a white friend and I always tell them about my community, my back home, my religion, they don't know anything. Even there's a guy at my work and he said uh I learned so much about you guys about about you by your

01:06:59.800 - 01:07:20.190

religion which I did not know, and he's like a 60 year old and he didn't know he didn't know anything about Sikh or Punjabi community four years before to this date. Mhm So that happened because I talked to him and we friends. Now we like you know

01:07:20.190 - 01:07:39.380

we watched movies we like you know he tells me, okay read this or watch this movie about America, about Canada history and I tell him watch this and read this. So yeah, but again that was because I was lenient with him and I was I was

01:07:39.380 - 01:07:56.170

adopting whatever he was telling me. So it's it's never a one way street, it's always a two way traffic. So it's up to you how you want to. That's it. [PP]: Okay, that's good advice. Even personally like I'm 20 years old but that's something like to think

01:07:56.170 - 01:08:11.890

about and take on with you as you. Yeah. Okay. So for the most part that concludes our interviews, is there anything any last things you want to say or any questions you want to ask? [HS]: No. It was nice talking to you. Yeah, I was I never

01:08:11.900 - 01:08:28.870

thought of the stuff that you asked me item when you were I had a refresh lot of refreshed memory from from the time I came back here. It was good talking to you. I again, even I'm talking to you, I learned like you know how I

01:08:28.870 - 01:08:51.790

was I never looked like you know you do your regular routine, you don't look back how you you know where when you came here, what problem when you talk about it refresh your memories. Um Again I'm happy I'm in Canada. Thank you. [PP]: Thank you for allowing

01:08:51.790 - 01:09:03.450

us to interview you. It's going to help me with my project and it's going to help. [HS]: I hope I just said my stuff. I hope it helps. [PP]: No, it is really good. It was actually way better than I expected. It was a really good interview,

01:09:03.450 - 01:09:10.400

in my opinion. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So thank you for taking part. I'm just gonna stop the recording now. Okay.