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[Mukti Patel]: Okay. All right. Um let's see. Today is Thursday, March 18 2021 and the time is 12:28. I'm Mukti Patel. I'm a student working on the South Asian Oral Histories of Peel Project at the University of Toronto Mississauga. And I'm interviewing Jeejna Mandavia. We're

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both in the GTA. I am in Toronto and she is in Peel. Jeejnaben Would you mind giving me your full name and pronouns if you're comfortable sharing? Sure. [Jeejna Mandavia]: So uh Jeejna Mandavia or Mandavia, Yeah. Sorry. And uh I go by she/her um, yeah. [MP]: And if

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you're comfortable, do you mind offering some more clarity on your id such as your race, gender, sexuality, any other disabilities or age? Whatever you'd like to share? [JM]: I identify as Indian Hindu Canadian. Female. Um Yeah. [MP]: Okay. Um do you mind saying your date of birth and

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your place of birth? [JM]: Yeah February 6, 1978. And I was born in North York which is now Toronto. [MP]: Okay so how old are you now? [JM]: 43. [MP]: 43. You don't look it. [JM]: Thank you. [MP]: Do you mind telling me about your family when you were growing up? What what what

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were your parents like? What did they do? What was your relationship with them like? [JM]: Sure. Um growing up. So um I'm the eldest of two children, have a sister who is um three years younger than me. Um my parents both came from India. Um my father

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um and my mother both were the first and only children to go to post secondary education. So my father went to the State's first. Um He studied there, he was thinking about settling, they settled in um Canada. My mom married and then followed uh yeah after

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my birth um We lived we had very humble beginnings. My parents came from you know just humble humble beginnings as well in India. Um We didn't have a lot but we had enough to kind of uh live our lives um More importantly our faith values those

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kinds of things. Um We're very stable in our family. Um My sister and I um we lost her father at a young age and so my mom was basically a single parent from then on. Um But yeah you know we did what most families probably did

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spend some family time together. Um We on a weekly basis came together as a Hindu community um to kind of worship and spend time with people who were from the same background. Um Yeah we went on picnics, we did those kinds of things but yeah

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[MP]: Yeah I think there's a lot to unpack in what you just said. So I'm gonna ask a few follow up questions if that's okay. So you mentioned that your dad had first moved to the States and then come to Canada. Where did he study in the

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States? [JM]: He was in Florida. He studied like West Palm Beach or something like that. He went to college there and then um he came to Canada thereafter um for various reasons but yeah he was there um he was studying full time and working full time.

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Um my family, my father's family didn't have a lot of money when he came to the States, they took out a loan to buy his ticket and so when he came he really didn't have a place to go, he didn't know where he was going to stay.

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Um but he managed to figure things out, he worked hard so that he could put himself through school, send money back home and also kind of you know, live um in the States while he was studying. [MP[: What did he study? What was he studying for? Like

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career-wise? [JM]: Accounting. [MP]: Accounting. Cool, very cool. Okay. Um and then after that you had told me that your father passed away when you were when you and your sister were young. Do you mind sharing more about that experience? And your mom's experience as a single mother. [JM]: Yeah.

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Um Yeah, he was diagnosed with cancer, he didn't actually share this with the family. Uh We came to know later on, he didn't want to worry the family, so he did share this with our spiritual leader who is um you know, just our our guide or

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teacher or everything and so you know, he kind of put it in his hands and said this is what's happening and left it at that. Um it wasn't until 1988 that he became fairly sick, he was diagnosed in 1985 in 1988, he became quite ill. Um

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He was in and out of hospital and he needed a bone marrow transplant. Um And so my uncle was a match, he came from India to donate his uh his marrow and so the transplant happened um he wasn't, he was okay, but then it didn't take

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and so there were um the odds were kind of stacked against him, like they weren't all that great. Um He did speak to our spiritual leader to gain guidance to see you know what should happen given the the odds. And so the decision was to not

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pursue a second transplant, and from there his health did deteriorate. Um And then early in January um 1989, he passed away, so I was 10 and my sister had just turned....seven. [MP]: Well yeah, at 10 years old, how how did you, if you're

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comfortable talking about this, how did you feel at the time and how did you make it through? [JM]: Um My faith plays a very large role in the way that I view life and the perspective I keep. My spiritual leader, my guru is um I consider to

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be my true mother and father um at a young age, losing a parent is very hard and the kind of understanding one needs to cultivate and hold on to is a difficult thing to I guess cultivate and just the emotions that you go through, I remember

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when I did find out, I guess because we had seen my father ill for so long, not really knowing what was going to happen, would have perhaps mentally prepared for something of this sort, but um my immediate instinct was if my mother was to pass away

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will happen to us and I found comfort in knowing that I had an individual in my life that was going to be there forever, regardless of who was there, who wasn't there and that's my guru, he plays a large role in my life and he is

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my true mother and father, he took the place, I never felt the loss of a father, I never felt disadvantaged because I knew that I had my guru who I had accepted as my father and he has been there throughout every stage of my life um helping

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me guiding me um whether it's explicit or just through prayer, which is my mode of communication with him, um but he has always been there and so having that presence um was the most comforting thing, I still feel that presence today. [MP]: Mhm. I see that you

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talk about this guru very frequently, so I'm curious to know more, how did you first come into contact with your good or how did you, how did you come to terms with religion? Um was it always important to you? Did you know from an early age

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that you know this guru is your true guru, was it a value passed down for your parents if you can speak more about that, I'd love to hear it. [JM]: I was born to the faith. My parents both came from different backgrounds. They accepted um they

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were Hindu um the Swaminarayan sect or faith I guess, I don't know if that's the right terminology to use but um, accepting Bhagwan Swaminarayan as their God and and so from an early age I was always exposed to this um I grew up knowing that

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you know [indistinguishable] is my guru um and so yeah I can't say from an early age like it was like yeah this is it, this is everything, but over time from the values that my parents had, from what they taught, seeing them live their lives

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the way that they understood the role of a guru in their life. Um I was able to learn from that and through my own experiences as well, I had opportunity to um participate in various activities that are held through our faith group and as a result

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um I learned about the role of a guru and what that means um and from there I was able to understand the relationship between myself and my guru. [MP]: Um you've mentioned this faith group and I'm wondering what this looked like in like the 1980s when

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you were growing up um did you go to a certain place to speak to other people, did it happen in your home? [JM]: Uh yeah, so um when my father actually came to Canada, he had seek guidance from his guru, right guru. And um at the time

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a guru said go to Canada, you know, settle there since you have your PR and remain there and start um what we call Satsang. And so he stayed here. He was one of the founding individuals um here in Canada. And so we didn't have a place

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of worship that we went to, but we had a Mandir here which is our place of worship in our basement. And so people um who were like minded who had accepted um the Swaminarayan faith and apply those values to their lives. They would come and we

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would gather once a week and we would sort of meet together um discuss, you know, um participate in worship those kinds of things, prayer. Um, so it was very small, it was a very, very small group of people that came together at that time. Um, but

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over time through immigration and um growth from various um people immigrating from various places. We have grown to a very large organization and we do have a dedicated dedicated place of worship, not just one, but many across Canada. And so it's very nice to see where,

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you know, when we were young, we had this basement where we had this Mandir and it was a place that we kind of came together and from there, it's flourished to become such a prominent organization within Canada and not just in Toronto or the

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GTA, but in other places across Canada as well. [MP]: Yeah, that's very exciting. When you say small, how many people do you think came to the basement Sabhas? [JM]: Well, I know, I hear from my mom who talks about those early days. Um, you know, there were

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three families that came together which grew 5-10. Um, but I would say from what I recall when I was quite young, um, we really were like 15-20 families that kind of came together, which then over time grew too, you know, 25, 30 families, we eventually moved

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to a unit, which we had converted into a Mandir, a place of worship for all of us to come, which then, um, I think really lent itself and this is where we see a lot of immigration happening, people coming from different places, whether it's Africa, India

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England, um, but that's when we really see a big flourish around, you know, nine, the early nineties onwards, we had some big festivals as well when we were younger because we didn't have a dedicated dedicated place of worship and people would gather in our basement. We

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would have, um, like Diwali celebrations, um, and other like big celebrations in high school gyms or renting out churches and we would have our events at those places, but once we have a dedicated place, it, I feel really attracted more people um because it was like

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the stable place that people could come to and um from there, you know, just kind of became what it is today. [MP]: Mhm. I'm also curious about the transition from the basement assemblies to, when you had gotten the unit. Was your father involved in this process

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um or... [JM]: So when we had our basement assemblies. Um so that was early, like the late seventies, early eighties is when we had the basement subhas um when [indistinguishable] Maharaj came to Toronto at that time, he also had said um a way to make

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it a little bit more accessible for various people within the community um to have rotating subhas. So we would uh go from one place to another, every Sunday would be a different location so that we could have people that were maybe further away, make

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it a little bit more accessible for them. And so we transitioned to having the subhas take place at various um devotees, at those houses and then from there, um we went to our unit. So my father passed away in 1989 and we opened in 1990

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summer. [MP]: Mhm. And you had mentioned that um [indistinguishable] had come to Canada and Toronto. Do you remember his visits to Canada, Do you, do you mind telling me more about them? [JM]: Um Not from the early days, I was quite young and to be honest, I

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didn't really understand um you know what it meant for him to be here, but I do remember, I recall after we were in the unit and more so recently, um visits of [indistinguishable] Maharaj, but one very memorable moment, um you know, [indistinguishable] Maharaj, you know, lived

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a very dynamic life. He dedicated his life to other people 100%. He didn't care for himself or his own comforts. Um so when he came in the early seventies, my mom has told me that, you know, he would have breakfast at one place, lunch somewhere

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else, dinner somewhere else, um, constantly moving to visit people, um, assemblies, late night meetings, those kinds of things. Um, and you know, his age, he's, we're celebrating his 100th birth um right now and you know, kind of understanding that he was in his late, like, he

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was quite old, you know, in in the eighties and the nineties and um, so when he would visit here to, you know, again, just really meeting people meetings, those kinds of things, assemblies, giving guidance, being there for the people. In 1988, when he came

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to visit. This visit, they weren't going to have like, what we call padramis. Padramis were, you know, he will go from home to home to see and visit people. Um that was very limited. And the fact that [indistinguishable] Maharaj went to visit my

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father in hospital when he was there over the summer of 1988 um was very impactful to me personally because you know, he was our guru, he was there for us and it wasn't like something had to happen to prove that he loved us, that he was

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there for us. But the sheer fact that he went to go visit, you know, one person out of so many people um and that too in the hospital where it wasn't an easy task, the hospital was downtown. To go to the hospital also meant that he

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would be visiting my father in isolation, which also meant you know um like sanitizing the self, wearing a mask, all of those kinds of things and you know right now we think about the pandemic and having to go through those steps and making sure that we're

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sanitizing and we're wearing our masks, how uncomfortable it is. Um to wear the mask, but also to breathe through the mask. It's very difficult and to think that at that age he said no, this is what I would like to do and went to go visit

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because it's very easy and um it would have been completely acceptable for him to call and talk to my dad on the phone, right? Um but to do that and for the hospital also to be accommodating to him coming to visit and making special arrangements and...

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[MP]: Which hospital was it? [JM]: He was at Princess Margaret hospital. Yeah, it was very unique, I think. And it is a memory that will stay with me for a lifetime. [MP]: Yeah so it sounds like um your your father and your guru had a very strong relationship and

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I imagine that must have been inspirational to you in some or in many ways. [JM]: Mhm. Um My my father did, he didn't grow up accepting Pramukh Swami Maharaj as a guru actually, and previous to Pramukh Swami Maharaj, Yogiji Maharaj um was the guru, who was the guru at the

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time when my father accepted um and became Swaminarayan. prior to this he you know his father was a Shiv Bhagwan follower. Um, my grandmother was a Vaishnava, you know, um and so for my father to accept something that was different than everybody

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else in his family was a little bit difficult but he when he first met Yogiji Maharaj um he experienced something different and he actually visited him by fluke, he went there to, he was like oh you know this guru is here and um he had heard

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that you know getting blessings or ashirwad from him was you know a good thing to do, so he was like I have an exam, I'm just going to go and get blessings and you know he put kanthi around his neck and so a year

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later he was like well you know I did well in my exams. I'll go get blessings again and so he went a year later and Yogi Bapa actually remembered him and from that moment he was like, you know, for somebody who meets so many people to

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remember, you know, a thirty second meeting a year later and to you know, share the kind of love and words and comfort, like he just thought it was something different and so he had accepted. But yeah, my father had a very um strong sort of um faith when

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it came to his understanding. He was diagnosed with cancer, but never did he complain. Never did he, um he never felt a sense of sorrow for himself, he never complained about anything. He accepted that this was a part of life and that whatever happens, happens for

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the best and is according to God and our guru, um gurus wish, and so he was okay with whatever happened and that was what he actually um imparted to my mom as well was that, you know, these things will happen, life is full of challenges, it's

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either one thing or another, but the way that we respond to those challenges makes a difference and understanding who we've met and um what we have is of paramount importance, nothing else is as valuable as that and that's the only thing that will stay with us.

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And so my um my uncle, so my dad, he come from a large family. He has three brothers and four sisters and so his um I guess the brother just before him, so my father is actually the youngest of his entire family um and so my uncle

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met um, he met somebody I can't remember who um another Hindu leader I guess and this person said that you know um a person like your brother shouldn't have to suffer like this and we will pray to whomever so that he and my father's words were

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um you can tell them that I have no regrets in life that I have met um a guru who will be with me beyond this world and to develop that you know that his talk of faith, that firm faith was something that um I guess really

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was something that was passed down to me that I think is the most valuable gift um and now kind of reflecting back like thinking about not having a father growing up but the value that he left behind was a teaching of a lifetime if there was

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nothing else, you know if I had to choose today those values or having my father right now hands down, I would choose those values. [MP]: Wow that's very powerful and it's a very strong thought and I'm I'm also a little curious because it sounds like your father

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and I mean we've been talking about this for a while but your whole family had a very strong relationship with your religion with satsang um and I imagine that your father had definitely dedicated his life to the vision of his guru. Um and there also seems

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to be a growth of like um the community, the religious community and your family's time in Canada. Um what kind of world I think your family has played in the growth of the religious community. Um I don't think that my family played any significant role to

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be honest, I think that whatever happens, happens because it's meant to happen and it is purely due to the each other wish of um Bhagwan Swaminarayan and guru Pramukh Swami Maharaj. No matter how much effort you put into something, if it's not

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meant to be, it will not happen. Mhm. But to, I think it's important to understand your purpose in life, so if you understand what your purpose in life is and you have a very clear picture and you're focused in what you'd like to do in life.

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Now, there's lots of wavering and there's lots of reasons why wavering can happen, but if you know that this is true, this is what I strive to achieve and this is what I'd like um to pass down maybe to my family because I know what's good

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for me and that's something that I would like to have for the rest of my family, I think it's important to um to have that clarity and so um I think my parents had accepted early on when they had come to Canada that this was the

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kind of lifestyle that they wanted to lead, they wanted to align their life with the teachings of their guru and to live that kind of life um meant that there were certain things that they would do and, certain things that they wouldn't do, and it wasn't

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like, oh I have to give up this or I have to make a sacrifice, it's not a sacrifice if that's something that you want to accept for yourself. And so aligning your life with the teachings of your guru and understanding the way that they live their

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life and viewing them, seeing them in action and them being that constant role model for us, I think that creates great impact and that in itself is something that motivates individuals to lead the kind of life that they lead or do the things that they do.

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So I don't think that that they did anything different than other people that were here, but I think um just having that clarity and that focus allowed them to align their lives with what they wanted to do and that gave them purpose. Um they work towards

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that and that became their goal and as a family, you know, as children, we see that we see the way that our parents live their lives. Um You know, my dad passed away at an early age, so like, well he was young too, I guess he

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was 40, um but I was 10, and so um I don't have very many memories, but from what I hear and what I see and um you know, I also have the fortune to hear about my dad from other people as well, that that just kind

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of solidifies, I guess the experiences that I must have had when I was growing up, but also seeing my mom and the way that she lived her life and the way in which she sort of dedicated herself to the purpose that she had identified for herself

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and that played a big role in who I am today and the way that I live my life and the things that I choose to do and the things that I don't choose to do. [MP]: Yeah, I'm very interesting hearing more about your mother too. Um so

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from like, past age 10, you probably relied on your mom for a lot of things for support. What was your relationship with your mother? Like what kinds of values had she also passed down to you. [JM]: Um My mom was a very um easy going mom. I

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on the other hand, I'm very different when it comes to um parenthood. My mom, she was very open and accepting. She had said to us even at an early age that, you know, this is how I live my life whether you choose to or not is

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up to you, but this is something that's important to me and this is how you know, I choose to live my life and I'm passing this on to you, but whenever you feel like this is not something that you know you align with, whether it's like

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she even said that if you want to eat meat you can eat meat, you want to eat, you know, onion or garlic you can um that's up to you, but this is how I'm raising you um and so there was no pressure ever, but um

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I think from an early age I took on a little bit more responsibility because my mom was a single parent and I had a younger sister, so I think automatically by default you just kind of understand that there is more help and support that's needed within

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the family and so um I guess people would say that you know you grow up fast, but I don't know if I grew up fast um. But yeah, my mom, she was a very strong woman um again like I think I've seen her cry once

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after my father passed away and that was the day that he passed away and after that she um to sort of you know for her it's the same, you know whatever happens, happens for a reason and we have the support that we need um whether it's

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that physical support or not and so for her it was like these are my values, this is what I want, this is how I want to live my life and this is what this is how I want to raise my kids and for her the same

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thing like guru faith, it's it's the most important thing in life. Um she, we never really struggled, you know, you would think that um two people who immigrated from India, didn't have very much at all. Um neither of them spoke English when they came here and

00:32:45.160 - 00:33:08.160

um just the way that they were able to settle um the life that they were able to establish um it's the sheer blessings of our guru that made all of that possible. She actually, when my father was sick she um was thinking about switching her

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job and so my my father encouraged her and said yeah, I think it's something that you should do, don't worry about my health um you know and so my mom was like you know you're anyway, so she switched her job and that was when my father actually

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became very sick and she was thinking, you know at my old job, I had so much support, they knew me, this is a new company. Um but everything just worked out like she had overwhelming support from her colleagues and her supervisor um and what ended up

00:33:44.180 - 00:34:04.530

happening was she switched her job and a few months later or so um the company that she worked with was sold and everybody was, lost their jobs and so you know a very like for her, she she says like you know Swami was looking after me,

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he knew what needed to happen. Her, the job that she had switched um was on the subway line and so um my father became sick and he was in hospital, it was downtown and that also kind of fell in place, she just needed to get on

00:34:20.640 - 00:34:43.440

the subway and she could get to the hospital within a short amount of time, she didn't have to worry about things um and the support of her community was huge, but she will also say that at every stage in her life Swami has been there helping

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her, whether she, she's never asked for help, she's never written a letter per se, I haven't either, but we talked to Swami through prayer and it's such a powerful medium to engage with the guru with our guru and yeah, she, she's had moments where you know

00:35:08.010 - 00:35:35.870

like [indistinguishable] Maharaj was in Gondol, in Gujarat at a time where we were planning to have a three day [indistinguishable] and it's sort of like, I don't know how to explain this, but it's a three day sort of, sermon...I don't know um. Anyway so

00:35:35.870 - 00:35:50.530

at the, at the Mandir in India and um you know from Pramukh Swami Maharaj had asked, Oh is there any way that you know you come earlier, so we would be, we could be present like that, he could be present during that time and it wasn't possible

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like here, it's very different like you know, you booked vacations, you've got your tickets booked, school, all of that plays a factor and so it wasn't possible um but for a split second she thought it would be amazing if he was there um but it was

00:36:06.490 - 00:36:22.060

impossible to, but [indistinguishable] Maharaj rearranged his whole schedule, he made it so that he switched things around and he ended up making it possible for him to be present there. And when the [indistinguishable] happened for those three days, he stayed out for like six hours and

00:36:22.060 - 00:36:41.410

him and another [indistinguishable] Swami, the two of them did the [indistinguishable] together. He made special arrangements to make sure that we had seating that would allow for the optimal, you know, participation. Um and it was just amazing. There was another point in

00:36:41.410 - 00:37:01.610

her life where she was very worried about something, it was on her mind um and you know she had gone to, she was in India at that time um some sometime in like 2000, 2001 um or maybe a little later um and she, you know, she

00:37:01.610 - 00:37:15.760

had gone for darshan of Pramukh Swami Maharaj and she told my nephew, nobody knew about her worry, she had told my nephew go and just you know, meet Pramukh Swami Maharaj and then we'll be on our way. So we went to meet, Pramukh Swami Maharaj asked

00:37:15.760 - 00:37:35.060

who are you, were you coming from, da da da da da, came to know that he was, you know, my father's brother's son. Um and so and just at the tail end of that conversation, Pramukh Swami Maharaj said, tell her not to worry that everything will be okay and

00:37:35.070 - 00:38:05.560

everything works out for the best. Nobody knew and my nephew had no idea what he was talking about. Um And so these small, seemingly small interactions, you know incidents seem like small things but have such a profound impact on um just I guess I can't find

00:38:05.560 - 00:38:30.130

the word. Um. [MP]: Yeah that's fine. [JM]: Yeah, just you know reassuring that whether you know it or you don't, your guru is always with you and when you lose connection with your guru it's, your guru never leaves you. Pramukh Swami Maharaj never leaves us. We may go

00:38:30.130 - 00:38:44.590

through these points in our lives where we have ups and downs but our guru is always there. Um We just need to reach out and hold that hand. [MP]: Mhm. It sounds like you went to Gondol and India when you were younger. Did you go to India

00:38:44.590 - 00:39:02.080

often when you were younger? [JM]: Not really. My mom made it a point to make sure that we went to India um at least every three or four years. Once every three or four years. So that we because our entire family was in India.

00:39:02.090 - 00:39:18.910

My father comes from a large family. My mom's whole family was back home so we would go so that we could keep that connection with our family and also to have darshan of Pramukh Swami Maraj and visit mandirs in India. So um I love going

00:39:18.910 - 00:39:36.050

to India. Um so you know it's nice. [MP]: Yeah. Yeah. You also mentioned that your mom's parenting technique differs a little bit from your own. Can you tell me more about that? [JM]: Yeah, she's like very easy going. She doesn't really stress about things and she is very

00:39:36.060 - 00:39:51.620

um and this again speaks to her level of understanding that everything happens the way that it happens. We've put in place the tools that are necessary and we do the things that are necessary, but at the end of the day you can't impose something, you can't

00:39:51.620 - 00:40:09.950

force something to happen that and you have to trust in Bhagwan and you know our guru to make sure that you know if it's their wish it will happen and if it's not it won't happen. Um and you know she...prayer is a very powerful tool

00:40:09.950 - 00:40:37.920

for her as well. Um so she's able to kind of, you know, just kind of go with the flow and um I on the other hand, um I'm a little more uptight I guess than she is um and I don't know if that is um because

00:40:37.920 - 00:40:57.280

I'm a teacher and I'm uh you know in a school and I see lots of things um maybe it's because I understand or I'm fearful of the world of social media and just learning about bullying and acceptance and just seeing the things that are happening in

00:40:57.280 - 00:41:19.810

the world. Again, um what reassures me though, even though I may worry about these things is knowing that I have somebody who is going to make sure that things are taken care of and so when I do feel the heaviness of things, I am able

00:41:19.810 - 00:41:45.240

to lighten myself by pouring my heart out to my guru. Being able to have conversation um and conversation is just, you know, in my mind or in front of a murti, like an image of my guru or um just being able to reconnect and remind myself

00:41:45.610 - 00:42:06.590

of the core values that our faith teaches. [JM]: Yeah, I see that you mentioned you're a teacher. Um can you tell me more about how you decided on that career path? [JM]: Um yeah, I was never as firm as I might be in my faith and knowing

00:42:06.590 - 00:42:26.960

exactly what like my purpose in life is in terms of leading a life that is centric to my faith. Um when it came to like figuring out what I want to do career wise was a different story, um I was thinking like, you know, of course

00:42:26.970 - 00:42:45.140

immigrant parents and I don't want to generalize by any means, but my immigrant parents had high hopes. They had come to this country to establish a new life for themselves and create a better life for their kids. And so um I do get to see this

00:42:45.150 - 00:43:06.720

in school as well. I teach in Peel Region in Brampton. And so we have a significantly, a significant South Asian population at our school. And so I do see this as well, but um you know, trying to um push their kids in the medical field

00:43:06.720 - 00:43:29.410

or you know, doctor, pharmacist, lawyer, those types of pathways. And so, you know, my mom was like, yeah, you could be a doctor, but you know, earlier on I thought I would be a pediatric, pediatrician. Um and then I was like, oh, that's too much

00:43:29.410 - 00:43:48.820

studying. So I was like, okay, dentistry is nice, maybe pediatric dentist. And then I was like, that still is a lot of school, but I knew I wanted to work with kids and the reason why I was, I had the opportunity to be a teacher in the mandir

00:43:49.200 - 00:44:13.490

um where we have subhas for different age groups. And so I was working with high school kids. And so when I went to university, um my mother's dismay, I wanted to pursue psychology and my mom said you can do psychology if you want, but you have

00:44:13.490 - 00:44:26.980

to do something else with it. And I was like, okay, so we'll be psychology and history because I like history and she was like, oh, well that's not going to take you down the medical pathway. But I reassured her. I'm like, don't worry, I got this,

00:44:26.990 - 00:44:41.240

I didn't really know what I was going to do but then I realized that teaching was something that I wanted to go into and so here I am. [MP]: How'd you decide on psychology and history? So it sounds like you liked history but how about psychology. [JM]: Same

00:44:41.240 - 00:44:59.570

thing. I was very fascinated by the psyche and just the way the mind works. Even today I'm still very interested in those kinds of things like development and um after being a parent, I've read I don't know countless number of books on you know raising a

00:44:59.570 - 00:45:21.810

child and like um the psychology behind it, the mindset, the whatever you need. [MP]: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah so you are a parent. I feel like that we've we've touched upon this a little bit but I was wondering if you could tell me more about your child.

00:45:22.190 - 00:45:41.710

Um So like what year was she born, what's her name? How old is she, what is she like? [JM]: Yeah she was born in 2018. Um So I was 40, just just a week shy of 40 when she was born so I became a parent in my late days.

00:45:41.720 - 00:46:10.090

Um um yeah she's three today, her name is Keshavni [?] or sorry birthday, she's not three today, sorry you know now. Okay okay. Um She yeah she's born in January, she's, so her name's Keshavni [?] um. [MP]: How did you decide on a name? [JM]: Um

00:46:11.380 - 00:46:31.410

So I again so I wanted to as as many people wish to become parents, I also wanted to become a parent um didn't happen until my later days and at that point I had probably kind of checked it off my list saying it's not happening, but

00:46:31.420 - 00:46:46.230

I had purpose in life and so content. I've gotten to a place where I was like, yeah, this is, this is what I'm doing, this is and I'm very satisfied with my life and I don't need anything else to, you know in my life to kind

00:46:46.230 - 00:47:06.280

of, so um but when I came to know that I was expecting, I was um feeling a lot of different emotions because I had kind of, you know, put that on the back burner, like it's done, we're not going there um and so um lots of

00:47:06.280 - 00:47:20.250

different emotions like fear and then age, so like age plays a factor and we know that, you know, as as one ages, there are other complications that can arise or so there's a little bit of fear there, but then, you know, I had just left it,

00:47:20.250 - 00:47:40.130

I said this is a gift from God, um I have a guru who has gifted me with something so profound and so um whatever happens happens and whatever it is it is and um you know, there are opportunities for further testing to see if there things

00:47:40.130 - 00:47:54.850

that we need to worry about or think about and I opted out of those things that didn't, whatever, what happened, what happened and we would figure it out there after she was born healthy. Um We didn't know what we were having. Um I was convinced that

00:47:54.850 - 00:48:20.880

it was going to be a boy for many reasons, but actually, yeah, anyway, but it was a girl and I was just over the moon um regardless boy girl didn't really matter, but you know, bias, I'm a girl. Um Yeah, but we, we hadn't ever talked

00:48:20.880 - 00:48:38.830

about like names or anything of that sort um whether it was a boy or a girl. Well actually because I thought it was a boy um that she was going to be a boy. We had never discussed names because we would have just left it to

00:48:38.830 - 00:49:01.090

our guru to name our child and then when we, when she was born, we're like, oh we didn't ever discuss names and so there was quite a bit of back and forth. I really wanted her to have a name that she could connect with and um I didn't want

00:49:01.100 - 00:49:27.830

it to necessarily form her identity but be a part of her identity. Mm I don't know if that makes sense. Um so I didn't want her to feel she was boxed into this identity because this was her name. Um but I wanted her to formulate an

00:49:27.830 - 00:49:50.120

identity around her name and be able to um understand. Long story short. Um we went back and forth and a bunch of names, but we did end up naming her after our current guru, Mahant Swami Maharaj whose um initiation name is Keshavjivandasji and uh we

00:49:50.120 - 00:50:15.900

took part of his name, Keshav, and put 'ni' behind it and those Keshavni, meaning, she belongs to Mahant Swami Maharaj, she belongs to our guru and that was important for me because she was a gift to me but she belongs to him. [MP]: That's absolutely

00:50:15.900 - 00:50:31.300

beautiful and just by thinking through the names so carefully it sounds like there are certain values that you or like hopes that you wanted to pass down to your daughter, are there more that you'd like to share. [JM]: Um I would like her to lead a Satsang

00:50:31.300 - 00:50:59.000

centric life um having some core values are important to me and um and I think that the same way my mom did like leading by example and being able to live my life the way that I would like her to. Being that role model and you

00:50:59.000 - 00:51:18.820

know kids at this age especially observe everything um so you don't have to tell them to do something but they'll do things because they see others doing them. And so I think that that's a powerful way to teach um and you know, and teach her values, but

00:51:18.830 - 00:51:43.330

I also want her to be her own individual and to kind of develop her own self identity that's separate from her parents or others because I think it's important in order to um lead a confident life and and so it is important for her to have

00:51:43.330 - 00:52:08.150

those core values. Um and I think that having those core values will allow her to um remain stable and be able to grow um along that spiritual path. [MP]: What is, what is Keshavni's three year old personality like? [JM]: Oh my goodness, she, she knows what she

00:52:08.150 - 00:52:31.140

wants and what she doesn't want and she will make it very evident. Um but she is um really like every day she surprises me with the things that she's able to absorb the way that she interacts with people, the way that she will sometimes be inconsiderate,

00:52:31.140 - 00:52:54.830

but at times be overly considerate, you know? Um it's just amazing to see that growth and to see somebody go from being non verbal to verbal to you know, being so dependent, becoming independent and being able to kind of independently live their life. I think it's

00:52:55.950 - 00:53:13.100

amazing. [MP]: I hope one day Keshavni gets to look into these archives and see all these wonderful things you're saying about her. Yeah. Yeah. Um We've also I have a few more questions about religion and then I guess we can wrap it up. Um I

00:53:13.100 - 00:53:31.060

was wondering we we throw around the word like Hindu a lot. Um and I wanted to know what it means, like what Hindu means to you. What does it mean to be Hindu. It's kind of a hard one. [JM]: Yeah, that's a tough question because I don't really sit and think about what

00:53:31.060 - 00:53:48.290

it means to be Hindu. I know what it means to be Swaminarayan. [MP]: You can tell me about that, yeah. [JM]: To me like what it means to be Swaminarayan means that I know who I am, I know who I'm aligned with and it means I have a

00:53:48.300 - 00:54:04.730

purpose in my life. Um I think that those things are important, I think purpose in life is very important, it doesn't matter what you do, what you don't do, how much money you have, what you don't have. None of that is of true value. Um but

00:54:04.730 - 00:54:26.670

what is a value is if you have purpose in life and we can see from, you know, people who have established purpose in life. Mother Teresa, Mahatma Gandhi, like you name it, Nelson Mandela, you know these individuals had purpose and that purpose defined who they were,

00:54:27.240 - 00:54:51.180

who they are, how they um are viewed and the legacy that they leave behind, not only for the world but or even their family, um my parents, my mom has purpose, my father had purpose. His legacy is something that stays with me. And so when I

00:54:51.180 - 00:55:10.470

think about what it means to be Hindu, what it means to be Swaminarayan it means that I have an established identity that doesn't change and it gives me purpose in life. I know what I'm working towards, I have a goal um and I'm

00:55:10.470 - 00:55:26.120

working to achieve that goal. [MP]: Yeah, that makes sense. Um and then I guess that raises another question for me, that how has like religion or being Swaminarayan shaped your identity and how have you carried that identity with you beyond just the mandir space or beyond

00:55:26.120 - 00:55:47.460

just your home? [JM]: Mhm. I think there are certain values that come along with it. I think that when people's perspectives change, when they understand the kind of values that you hold um you know, people will come to me like I've had colleagues who will say to

00:55:47.460 - 00:56:07.300

me, please pray for this and that, or please pray for this to happen for me or please pray for a snow day or whatever it might be, you know, um or um you know, if something happens and I've missed something or whatever, the assumption is automatically

00:56:07.310 - 00:56:27.900

she wouldn't have done that on purpose or it would have been an oversight or no, she um she wouldn't have meant that. I think we need to re-establish, so I think it allows people to understand who you are because they understand that there is consistency

00:56:27.900 - 00:56:48.840

in your life and I think that is important that you're not one thing or another, it's not flakiness, but you are consistently who you are. Um I think that it also um allows for, so for me, in terms of my identity, it allows me to cultivate

00:56:48.850 - 00:57:09.710

the kind of perspectives that are important, there are certain things that are important. So I believe that everything happens due to the will of Bhagwan and guru and um that allows me to not allow the ups and the downs in life to affect me in a

00:57:09.710 - 00:57:33.370

way that could lead me down a dark path or you know, um that the stress of everyday is also lifted. Um you know, so things like that allow to shape who I am, the perspectives that I keep, the way in which I interact with people, um

00:57:33.380 - 00:57:51.240

the way in which I treat other people um is all sort of comes out of the values that I learned from mandir and how that has shaped me into the person that I am because um it's not to say that without faith, you can't be

00:57:51.240 - 00:58:09.140

a good person, but I think to be a good person to be the good person that I am has been a direct result of the faith that I follow. [Mp]: Mhm. And I was wondering this might also be another difficult question to answer. But has your identity

00:58:09.150 - 00:58:31.730

as a woman factored into your experiences with your faith? [JM]: Could you elaborate? [JM]: Yeah. Yeah. So oftentimes we tend to think of like um the way that our performed identities or performed genders have certain impacts on the way we see life. Um so I'm wondering if like

00:58:31.740 - 00:58:47.310

being a woman has had any sort of difference on the way that you see religion or um how religion is performed in the month? Sorry, not religion, but like how gender is performed in the mandir Uh, or does it, do you think there is no difference?

00:58:47.320 - 00:59:10.060

[JM]: Um, on a spiritual and a personal level, I don't, because I think that faith is open to anybody and practices open to anybody. And the things that we do for our spiritual growth is open and accessible to anybody. It doesn't matter who you are what your background

00:59:10.060 - 00:59:32.460

is. Um, I mean society is, um, is organized in a variety of different ways from the way that you see, the way that the government system is set up, right? There's organization, there is organization within companies, there's structure that is followed in order to make sure

00:59:32.460 - 00:59:53.770

that things happen. Um, I think within religion, a household even there is a certain structure. Um, and everybody's structure is different. Right? There could be a household where um, you know, the men, like the husband or the men in the house is responsible for earning and you

00:59:53.770 - 01:00:12.610

know, a woman stays home and her job is no less meaningful actually is more impactful, I would say. Um, then, you know, bringing money into the house. Um, but everyone's structure is different is my point is that, you know, in our structure, you know, everybody kind

01:00:12.610 - 01:00:29.640

of picks up and pitches in and does things where the gaps are, we just kind of do things and so everyone needs, I feel like you have to be comfortable within your structure and in the same way religion has structure. Um and so I don't feel

01:00:29.640 - 01:00:52.290

that I am disadvantaged by any means. Um I feel like I've had so many opportunities um and not as a woman or whatever, but I think just as an individual, I've had so many opportunities to grow and to participate and to be a part of um something

01:00:52.300 - 01:01:16.440

so big and something that's so large. So um I don't think that um I don't, I don't think that it has um impacted the way that I see myself or you know, my gender or anything of that sort, but um I think that there are certain

01:01:16.910 - 01:01:39.930

responsibilities that any individual would need to take and I think that within a household, so for example as a woman who as a mother, as a daughter in law, as a daughter, there is certain responsibilities that I feel I need to be fulfilled for within those

01:01:39.930 - 01:02:04.200

roles and in the same way as an individual of faith, there are certain responsibilities, there's a certain role that I play and um I think, I think as a woman and as a mother, um we take on more responsibility when it comes to faith and imparting

01:02:04.200 - 01:02:31.260

faith to our kids um simply because I don't know how to phrase this, but I feel as though there is this bond when you carry a child and when this child is born there is a special bond, it's nothing that you can put into words. Um

01:02:31.730 - 01:02:52.120

and it's no, I don't think, I don't think my husband would understand the kind of connection I feel to Keshavni. And that doesn't minimize the connection that he has with her by any means. But and I think because of that connection there is

01:02:52.700 - 01:03:15.450

a stronger um role that I play when it comes to imparting certain things. Uh I don't know if that makes that makes any sense. [MP]: That makes complete sense. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Um And then sorry, my final question then is also about um your experiences in general like going through

01:03:15.450 - 01:03:38.820

life, have you, have you had or can you recall any memorable experiences of sexism or racism or classism um in your life? [JM]: Yeah. I grew up I experienced quite a bit of racism when I was growing up and it really saddened me. Um but I had

01:03:40.800 - 01:04:02.020

I had parents who allowed me to see beyond that and I saw the way that they reacted to things and they acted the way they acted that allowed me to understand that you don't have to just accept the way that you're treated. Um you know I

01:04:02.020 - 01:04:21.820

was I was, I don't want to say the word so I won't say but there are racial slurs that are used for people of South Asian descent, brown skin starting with the letter P. Um And I was called that, I've been thrown dirt on, I've been

01:04:21.820 - 01:04:36.650

told to go back to my country, when I was born here and the person who was telling me to go back to my country though he was white, he had a distinct accent. So he did come from someplace else. Um and it saddened me in my

01:04:36.650 - 01:04:53.500

early days, I couldn't understand why people were treating me this way or why they didn't want to play with me in the playground or whatever. When I was told to go back to my country, I was in grade eight. Eight or nine, I can't remember anymore.

01:04:54.390 - 01:05:11.910

And I spoke to my teacher and I said, I want to organize a multicultural assembly in our school. And so we did that and, you know, we had some speakers that came in and we had people from different backgrounds and cultures where there, you know, their

01:05:11.920 - 01:05:36.490

cultural clothing and um sort of kind of, you know, uh I wouldn't say combat racism, but I guess it was some small beginnings of that. Um so there have been discrimination that I have faced. Um maybe not so much when it comes to classism, but sexism,

01:05:36.500 - 01:06:00.280

yes, I have seen this. Um not so much in the workplace, but I think just in school, when I was growing up, I even had a guidance counselor said, oh, you're Indian, but you don't have an accent, you know, um and you know, just kind

01:06:00.280 - 01:06:20.950

of being placed in a little compartment in terms of you can do these things and you can do those. And I have always um sort of pushed back not in a disrespectful way but you know you're gonna treat me differently because of the color of

01:06:20.950 - 01:06:37.460

my skin. While I'm going to respond to you in this way organize assembly. Um You're going to tell me that these are some things that I should consider when it comes to career path or whatever. Well no um you know I, don't tell me

01:06:37.460 - 01:06:53.060

I can't do certain things because I am a girl or whatever. And so you know I kind of responded to that by playing every sport that was offered at my school and you know in grade nine and getting the athlete of the year award because it was

01:06:53.060 - 01:07:07.290

just like my mom will tell me as well. You used to leave at like 6:30 AM, come back at like 6 PM. And you were just like playing volleyball and basketball and like all kinds of things. Um so often when somebody tells me you can't do something,

01:07:07.290 - 01:07:28.620

it's usually motivation to kind of say let me try to prove you wrong and it's done in subtle ways just in case I'm not able to. [MP]: Yeah. Yeah. I think the response to like you're gonna be racist. I'm going to organize a multicultural assembly. I think

01:07:28.620 - 01:07:45.870

that is such an iconic response. Mhm. Yeah. [JM]: Yeah. And I think today it's a lot different um you know working in a school where you see...I remember when I was in high school and I would tell my mom this all the time and I would

01:07:45.870 - 01:08:02.270

say I really want to go to this high school because there's so many more Indian kids. I went to a school where you could count the number of South Asian, the South Asian population on your, you know, your your two hands. And yeah, I just felt

01:08:02.270 - 01:08:19.510

like I was always different than everybody else. I didn't always feel like I fit in. Um but I think that that also shaped me into the person that I am today. My mom said, this is where you're going, you're not going anywhere else. So, you figure

01:08:19.510 - 01:08:36.160

yourself out, you figure out how you're going to survive and you know, that kind of, I guess ignited the fighter in me. [MP]: Yeah, yeah. That's very interesting. Thank you for sharing all those like very personal details about your life. Um I've learned a lot and I

01:08:36.160 - 01:08:49.920

think that was very inspiring. So I'm grateful that you could give me the time for this interview. [JM]: Thank you for the opportunity to share. [MP]: All right, I I will not take up any more of your time. So I'll just end the recording